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Non NFA SBR - Franklin Armory Reformation Login/Join 
Purveyor of Death
and Destruction
Picture of walker77
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
Obviously, they already have the ATF's blessing (aka, the Letter). Will be interesting to see the explanation.


Its not like they have ever reversed one of these rulings. Oh wait......
 
Posts: 6567 | Location: Raymore, Missouri | Registered: June 24, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Armed and Gregarious
Picture of DMF
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Perhaps. But many machine guns have a "semi" setting as well, and that doesn't make them "rifles".
Well, think of an M-16. With it in the semi setting, it functions like and meets the definition of a rifle. With the burst or auto setting, it functions like and meets the definition of a machinegun. So it must be registered as a machinegun, because it's capable of functioning as a machinegun.

With the binary trigger, in semi, and on a firearm designed to fire from the shoulder, with a rifled bore, it meets the definition of a rifle. It is a rifle. While in the binary position it seems to fall outside the "single pull" semantics of a rifle under 18USC921, and outside the "single function" semantics of 26USC5845. However, it's still a rifle, because it's configured to function like a rifle in one of it's settings.

A smooth bore, with either a non permanent rifled portion, or some other way to stabilize the projectile, seems more plausible.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DMF,


___________________________________________
"He was never hindered by any dogma, except the Constitution." - Ty Ross speaking of his grandfather General Barry Goldwater

"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want." - William Tecumseh Sherman
 
Posts: 12324 | Location: Nomad | Registered: January 10, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Armed and Gregarious
Picture of DMF
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by MG34_Dan:
I would like to see the action's internals. The rear of the barrel may be extended rearward and has a shuttle type action to insert the ammo into the barrel's breech.
Barrel length is measured from the closed breech face, to the farthest permanent portion of the muzzle.

https://www.atf.gov/file/58251/download
"The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device. Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured."


___________________________________________
"He was never hindered by any dogma, except the Constitution." - Ty Ross speaking of his grandfather General Barry Goldwater

"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want." - William Tecumseh Sherman
 
Posts: 12324 | Location: Nomad | Registered: January 10, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Tuckerrnr1
posted Hide Post
Have we heard anything about how they did it yet?


_____________________________________________
I may be a bad person, but at least I use my turn signal.
 
Posts: 3989 | Location: Florida | Registered: March 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Armed and Gregarious
Picture of DMF
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Tuckerrnr1:
Have we heard anything about how they did it yet?
If no one, with actual knowledge, leaks it, we won't get an answer until the SHOT show.


___________________________________________
"He was never hindered by any dogma, except the Constitution." - Ty Ross speaking of his grandfather General Barry Goldwater

"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want." - William Tecumseh Sherman
 
Posts: 12324 | Location: Nomad | Registered: January 10, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
posted Hide Post
Maybe if you "think" and "act" like it isn't a rifle, you have not "manufactured" a NFA item, in thought or mind.

Seriously, interesting to see what they have cooked up.
 
Posts: 39554 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Expert308
posted Hide Post
So, a rifle that self-identifies as "not a rifle"? Wink
 
Posts: 5465 | Location: Portland, OR | Registered: February 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Pittwm
posted Hide Post
I see this causing a whole lots of clarification letters and later gets reversed.... you know, we can't have good things.
 
Posts: 5380 | Location: Paducah KY | Registered: February 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Help! Help!
I'm being repressed!

Picture of Skull Leader
posted Hide Post
Some other speculation is that it will have a binary trigger with a semi setting that only fires with the release of the trigger.

That's my guess.
 
Posts: 9999 | Location: Big Sky Country | Registered: November 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Web Clavin Extraordinaire
Picture of Oat_Action_Man
posted Hide Post
I guess I'm the only one who's more intrigued by the Martin Luther imagery in the ad. Wink Razz


----------------------------

Chuck Norris put the laughter in "manslaughter"

Educating the youth of America, one declension at a time.
 
Posts: 17908 | Location: SE PA | Registered: January 12, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
I’m curious (and confused) about the “smoothbore” idea. Is that mentioned in the manufacturer’s advertising, or is it just speculation?

One blog discussion pointed out that having a barrel with no rifling would make it a shotgun unless it had straight (not helical) lands and grooves. But a completely smooth barrel or one with straight grooves would not spin the bullet and therefore the accuracy would be very poor, not to mention that a conventional bullet of the type used in the 223/5.56 cartridges would start to tumble almost immediately after leaving the barrel and would therefore have very short range. If only a part of the barrel were conventionally rifled, what legal difference would that make?

Am I missing something about why the gun might use a smoothbore barrel?




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38505 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Do No Harm,
Do Know Harm
posted Hide Post
Wouldn’t a smooth bore barrel under 18” be an NFA item?




Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here.

Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard.
-JALLEN

"All I need is a WAR ON DRUGS reference and I got myself a police thread BINGO." -jljones
 
Posts: 10038 | Location: NC | Registered: August 16, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
posted Hide Post
Franklin hasn't yet explained exactly how they accomplished it, but they have specifically stated that it's not a smoothbore.
 
Posts: 21285 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Why does the rail (on the upper and handguard) look as if they photo-shopped some of the lugs out?




 
Posts: 7587 | Registered: October 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
My hypocrisy goes only so far
Picture of GrumpyBiker
posted Hide Post
The "Gun Collective" did a video & stated that it is not a smooth bore.

Whatever it turns out to be I have to give FA cudos to the ability to get folks very interested in & talking about their product.
As well as all the free publicity that their vague presentation has caused.

I'm anxious to find out what this actually is ... & I don't even know why ! LoL




U.S.M.C.
VFW-8054
III%

"Never let a Wishbone grow where a Backbone should be "



 
Posts: 5916 | Location: Central,Ohio | Registered: December 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oriental Redneck
Picture of 12131
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Excam_Man:
Why does the rail (on the upper and handguard) look as if they photo-shopped some of the lugs out?

Maybe that's how they get the approval. Big Grin
 
Posts: 16159 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
https://www.google.com/amp/s/w...hands-shot-show-2018



These people apparently shot it and are not sure what loophole FA exploited. The plot thickens.
 
Posts: 581 | Location: Las Vegas | Registered: March 21, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
We gonna get some
oojima in this house!
Picture of smithnsig
posted Hide Post
It’s straight land or lands. It is for close in defense, 25-50 yard max. A gimmick to drum up interest. It can’t be anything else.

Now suppose you could get helical cuts on some 556. Probably be more expensive than the stamp.


-----------------------------------------------------------
TCB all the time...
 
Posts: 5774 | Location: Cantonment/Perdido Key, Florida | Registered: September 28, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
What a joke. Franklin Armory is going to be mocked by everyone for this. I guess this is cutting edge tech if you are a 17th century Conquistador.
 
Posts: 612 | Registered: September 27, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
Picture of RogueJSK
posted Hide Post
Rather than jumping to conclusion, we should wait for actual details.

As to the smoothbore/musket possibility, all we have so far is speculation and some conflicting reports from the Range Day, with Franklin Armory stating that it's "not a smoothbore", some media outlets reporting that it does have rifling, and other media outlets reporting that it has no rifling. To further confuse things, at least one gun blog has retracted their initial statement about it not having rifling.

Luckily, the official reveal is supposed to be at 8:30 am today, Las Vegas time. So we'll know for sure in roughly an hour.

Even if it turns out to be some dumb gimmick, Franklin Armory has certainly done a good job of drumming up interest and getting folks talking about their product. Way more successful than other similar recent attempts that cost a lot more and resulted in much less interest/hype. (I'm looking at you, Springfield Saint...)
 
Posts: 21285 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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