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Step by step walk the thousand mile road
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posted
I am watching a video on BoobTube and it is an interview with the head IMI guy for law enforcement sales.

He is give a demo/sales pitch on the IMI Neev family of belt-fed machine guns.

Law enforcement and belt-fed seems a strange combination.

Is anyone aware on an instance where US law enforcement fired a belt-fed as part of a police action (other than training or demonstrations)?



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And people wonder why I carry a SIG P320

Death to Terrorists
 
Posts: 26280 | Location: Loudoun County, Virginia | Registered: May 17, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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LA county SEB had m60s at one time, I had heard they were dumping them for m240 but dont know if they did
 
Posts: 369 | Registered: June 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It's really hard to imagine a practical scenario in which suppressive fire would be prudent in a law-enforcement scenario (where the threat of collateral damage was outweighed by the need to keep the target's head down). Maybe chasing down a fleeing terrorist with a helicopter, but even that is rather extreme.
 
Posts: 17146 | Registered: August 12, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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There are extremely limited situations in which law enforcement would need to use (or would be justified in using) a belt-fed machinegun. I don't know of any instances where they were utilized.

Most of what a belt-fed excels at, such as final protective fire or suppressing fire, are simply not feasible tactics for law enforcement in nearly all situations.

Traditional domestic/local law enforcement officers would have no need. Even SWAT teams would have no need. However, there are a few law enforcement units whose roles could include the need for belt-fed.

The first one that comes to mind is the Texas DPS patrol boats that operate on the border waterways:



I'm also thinking of some of the federal law enforcement units that protect extremely sensitive targets, like Department of Energy Agents at nuclear plants or Diplomatic Security Service Agents at high-risk US embassies, who could conceivably come under a military-style coordinated assault.

And certain protective details, like the Secret Service or Diplomatic Security Service, could conceivably have a need for them for convoys in high risk areas of the world, as a means to break an ambush.
 
Posts: 19320 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I can imagine that an LE agency would be happy to have a belt fed machine gun available in the event of a Mumbai-type attack with multiple well-armed attackers.

(I’m not saying that such an unlikely possibility would be justification to have one, but if it did happen it might be nice to have such a weapon.)




“... try not to shoot any friendlies ….”
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Posts: 37384 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yes, extremely limited application. The Texas BP boats are a good use IMO. They could run into some heavily armed cartel and it is sparsely populated area.

Other than that, in an urban area it would have to be an extreme attack like multiple terrorist mass shooters. Even then, sharpshooters seem to make more sense than suppressive fire. M240s and .50 BMGs are also good vehicle stoppers...




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Posts: 2917 | Location: Oregon | Registered: October 02, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Can't imagine Portland police having SAWs...imagine how many homeless bystanders might get shot Roll Eyes




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Posts: 2442 | Location: Valley, Oregon | Registered: June 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thirty or so years ago in (I think) New Orleans there was a rooftop shooter who was taken out by a door gunner from a military chopper, possibly from Fort Polk.
 
Posts: 12397 | Location: Eastern Iowa | Registered: May 21, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Not law enforcement per se, but at least some nuclear power plants have or had belt fed hardware.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DaBigBR,
 
Posts: 2078 | Location: Iowa | Registered: February 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Agencies should absolutely have belt-feds in inventory. As was previously mentioned, in a Mumbai style attack they'd be a welcomed option. Imagine a scenario in which the opposition has them or if terrorists kill the hostages so there's no threat of collateral damage.

Also, not all belt-feds are created equally. I once owned a HK23E clone. It's essentially a semi-auto sniper rifle or a LMG depending on optics and selector setting. Excellent versatility.
 
Posts: 3349 | Location: Miami, FL | Registered: April 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by fnforme:
Agencies should absolutely have belt-feds in inventory. As was previously mentioned, in a Mumbai style attack they'd be a welcomed option. Imagine a scenario in which the opposition has them or if terrorists kill the hostages so there's no threat of collateral damage.

Also, not all belt-feds are created equally. I once owned a HK23E clone. It's essentially a semi-auto sniper rifle or a LMG depending on optics and selector setting. Excellent versatility.



Agreed. LE agencies and private citizens should have beltfeds in inventory.


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Posts: 1856 | Location: The South | Registered: September 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It is difficult to get .308 semi auto rifles into most agencys I know I have tried. Most admin folks are concerned about over penetration on the 5.56 so when a bigger round is asked for forget it. Most admin will accept a bolt .308 but a happy switch, semi or belt fed not no but, h#!! no. All I was asking for was 2 HK 91's for the bolt gun guys so if the entry team got hit going into a dwelling then the 91's could be used to put up more fire support than a bolt gun could... VI
 
Posts: 483 | Registered: July 31, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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IIRC FBI HRT had M60s and Sheriff Joe had a .50 cal for down on the border.

As for requirement for them, you have to look at the agency and where it works.
 
Posts: 3734 | Location: Where ever Uncle Sam Sends Me | Registered: March 05, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Some nuke plant security teams have mini guns! As mentioned above, the HK family of mg’s Are very accurate when used on semi auto with a scope mounted.


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Posts: 2032 | Location: Illinois - Not Chicago | Registered: January 08, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I agree that there is a need for belt fed in law enforcement. Although, as others have stated the need is small.


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Posts: 30787 | Location: Logical | Registered: September 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Sigmund:
Thirty or so years ago in (I think) New Orleans there was a rooftop shooter who was taken out by a door gunner from a military chopper, possibly from Fort Polk.



It was 1973, more like 44 years ago.

As dusk approached, Essex was trapped in a block house on the hotel roof. The U.S. Marines volunteered a helicopter to get to him. During passes over the roof, officers poured gunfire at the block house while Essex popped out sporadically to fire back.

...Essex's shooting spree ended on the roof of the hotel, where he died with 200 gunshot wounds. The hotel is still open, as a Holiday Inn.


Complete article:

http://www.nola.com/175years/i..._the_howard_joh.html
 
Posts: 12397 | Location: Eastern Iowa | Registered: May 21, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I see the need but in very, very specialized roles. It will never make it past the biggest hurdle and impediment of all LE and Mil for that matter...a desk with a frowning idiot on post.
 
Posts: 1419 | Location: Western Wa | Registered: March 21, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oh stewardess,
I speak jive.
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We all have a need, albeit small and unlikely.

Call Oprah.

Belt-Feds for everyone!!!
 
Posts: 22169 | Registered: March 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Let's be careful
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I know of a Nuke that has a goodly number of belt-fed weapons, in three calibers.
If you have ever had a chance to look in the back of a Secret Service war wagon, you were probably pretty astonished at what all you saw.
 
Posts: 6531 | Location: NW OHIO | Registered: May 29, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Two words:
Beaten Zone


End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
 
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