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Fitting out Tikka CTR 6.5CM Login/Join 
Ammoholic
Picture of Tgrshrk99
posted
My rifle has arrived (24" stainless version) and I've been re-reading old threads on fitting it out. This is my first long range rifle - will be used for shooting steel/paper only.

I have a Leupold VX-6 3-18 scope for it. This scope has 75 MOA elevation adjustment. Using Hornady 147 gr ELD match ammo, I think a 20 MOA mount is what I want (will have opportunities to shoot over 1000 yards). That should give me enough upward adjustment to get that far. Options are to replace the rail with a canted rail, or use a canted one-piece mount. Any benefit to one over the other? One piece is simpler, but I like the looks of the Mountain Tactical rails. If I go that way, once I figure out how high my eyeball is I can order some rings. Local gun store guy likes Nightforce rings with titanium crossbolts. A friend likes Seekins. Another likes Vortex. I'm tempted to look at these and buy based on price.

I'm leaning strongly toward starting with a Harris bipod (swivel head, notched legs) for two reasons -- cost and ease of attachment using the sling stud.

We are blessed with myriad options, but it makes making a decision difficult. Would welcome any feedback.
 
Posts: 355 | Location: Between here and the end of the line | Registered: November 29, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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I believe a mount with +20 MOA is always a good idea unless you plan to do something weird that would require dialing way down (and I’ve never really figured out what that might be). When looking at factory elevation specs, keep in mind that “75 MOA elevation range” usually means the total from all the way down to the top; elevation from center would be half that.

I removed the factory mounting rail from a pre-CTR T3, and it turned into a bit more of a project than I anticipated. In addition to the screws, the rail was glued on, plus there were small studs from the receiver into the rail that I wasn’t able to remove and ended up cutting off with a Dremel wheel. A replacement rail might also require removing the studs unless the rail is specifically designed for the Tikka (and assuming the CTR has the studs as well).

I have a couple/three Spuhr mounts with 6 mils (~20.6 MOA) of elevation. I like Spuhr mounts in general, and the elevation can be had without changing the rail on the rifle. They’re not the only option for that; I believe plus elevation rings may be available from some manufacturers. As I say, though, I like Spuhr mounts and don’t bother looking further when I need a new mount.

In looking at the rail on the Mountain Tactical site, I’d be sure to ask them if it will fit the Tactical model if the factory rail is removed. The site says their rails have the Tikka Opti-Lock recoil lug, and I can’t remember if the Tactical model I removed the rail from had that slot.

I won’t recommend you reconsider your bipod choice, but I really like Atlas bipods. I used an adapter that converted the sling swivel mount to a short Picatinny rail section, and then use the Atlas with quick detach mount. Something I’ve recently become a fan of is spiked feet for use on ice or soft ground. Atlas factory spikes are available, but I’ve also found the ones made by Hawk Hill Custom to be excellent products, and they are available for Harris bipods as well. The only thing I’d not use them on are fine wood surfaces.

Added: I find that Burris has rings that can be used to add elevation; see here.

Second added: Based on the factory data for the load you mention and “standard” conditions, it looks like the elevation required at 1000 yards would be about 28 minutes of angle, so your scope with 37.5 MOA elevation should be capable of that without any extra; at 1100 yards, though, it’s getting close at 33 MOA. As has been explained here, there are disadvantages to running a scope’s elevation to the limit of its movement range.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38217 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
Picture of Tgrshrk99
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Thanks for the reply. Is this the type of mount you mean? What about them do you like?
 
Posts: 355 | Location: Between here and the end of the line | Registered: November 29, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Yes, that’s the type mount I like. As for why, they’re very sturdy (admittedly not a concern with the 6.5 Creedmoor); no issues with misalignment of two separate rings; built-in level; and the mounts use a system to ensure the scope reticle is not canted with respect to the receiver and barrel bore when the scope is mounted. And as I say, the mounts are available with an extra 20+ MOA of elevation that doesn’t require a separate elevation base.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38217 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Like a party
in your pants
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I use the Burris XTR rings, they work great.
 
Posts: 2980 | Location: Chicago, IL, USA: | Registered: November 17, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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OP -- go with a canted mount. 20 MOA works well. You want to be looking through the center of the lenses at the longer distances, and thus 20 MOA will keep you close to the center.

There are a number of rings/mounts that will work for you. I have Nightforce on my bolt action rifles. The NF rings have been rock solid for all the rounds on two rifles (somewhere between 9K and 10K rounds), airline travel, and rifles being dropped onto ground & concrete.

The Harris bipod is likely the best option if you must go to the sling stud. Atlas is a better bipod. The Atlas can either be mounted with an adapter as Sigfreund states, or by having a talented 'smith remove the stud and replace it with a short rail. My first rifle came with a sling stud and I began precision shooting with a Harris. Once I realized the benefits of the Atlas, I had my local 'smith install a short rail. I don't use a Harris anymore. I'm not saying a Harris is a bad bipod, just that the Atlas is better.

If you're sold on Hornady ELD-M ammo, I recommend trying both the 140 and 147 grain versions. Let your rifle tell you which one works better. The 140 will fly a little flatter, the 147 will deflect a little less in the wind.
 
Posts: 5388 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
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Thanks Fritz. I don’t reload, so I’m stuck with commercial ammo. The 147 was “highly recommended”. Open to other options.
 
Posts: 355 | Location: Between here and the end of the line | Registered: November 29, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There are a number of good match-grade options in factory 6.5 ammo. The vast majority of my ammo has been Hornady. First was 120 and 140 AMax, then I transitioned to 140 ELD. The 120 ammo flies flat, but it really doesn't do as well in the wind.

Some of the other factory match ammo is priced to compete with Hornady. You may want to try a box or two, if you like to tinker.

I have tried a few boxes of 147 ELD. In my rifle the 140 is a touch more accurate, but it's splitting hairs. I don't think the reduced wind drift of the 147 really becomes a factor until 900-1000 yards, maybe more. FWIW I have used the 140 ELD in competition out to a mile -- the bullet was still flying true at that distance, as it made small round impacts on the plate.
 
Posts: 5388 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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FWIW The Vortex higher end rings are Made by Seekins. They are a great choice in either box.

Spuhr mounts are Fantastic but expensive.

Harris bipods are good for the money, Atlas Bipods are better for more money. LRA Bipods are the Best for the most money.

Best of Luck with your new Rifle! :-)


Remember, this is all supposed to be for fun...................
 
Posts: 3649 | Registered: April 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of mutedblade
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quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:

I removed the factory mounting rail from a pre-CTR T3, and it turned into a bit more of a project than I anticipated. In addition to the screws, the rail was glued on, plus there were small studs from the receiver into the rail that I wasn’t able to remove and ended up cutting off with a Dremel wheel. A replacement rail might also require removing the studs unless the rail is specifically designed for the Tikka (and assuming the CTR has the studs as well).


In looking at the rail on the Mountain Tactical site, I’d be sure to ask them if it will fit the Tactical model if the factory rail is removed. The site says their rails have the Tikka Opti-Lock recoil lug, and I can’t remember if the Tactical model I removed the rail from had that slot.


Just to feed off of sigfreund, the rails are a pain to get off. I ended up having to drill out the screws and clean the threads. The stainless guns seem to be a bit easier to break loose, but I will suggest soaking the rail and screws with some kind of penetrating oil over the course of a few days (upside down in a vise would be best). There is some kind of epoxy underneath too once you get the rail off. Acetone should clean it up pretty well. There is also a recoil lug underneath. Some rails will use it, others won't. No big deal either way. You can pull it out rather easily by grabbing it with vice grips and twisting while pulling up.

I went through the same kinds of questions and found THIS THREAD over at Snipers Hide. Pretty good information in there by folks that are dealing only with the Tikkas.

Just want to let you know that inside of 1000 becomes rather easy, even with factory ammo. I haven't started reloading the 6.5 CM yet, but using the 140 grain Hornady ELD Match #81500 seems to be working for me so far. I'll be stepping it out to 1250 next time I take it out with the factory stuff.

Good luck and enjoy.


___________________________
No thanks, I've already got a penguin.
 
Posts: 1426 | Location: Lake Anna, VA | Registered: May 07, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
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I’m convinced not to remove the rail. The Spuhr mount is awesome, but pricey. Perhaps a 20 MOA one piece mount by someone else. That way I can swing an Atlas, but I’m not wild about putting holes in the stock. Is there an adapter that doesn’t require drilling? I have been looking this evening but haven’t found one yet.
 
Posts: 355 | Location: Between here and the end of the line | Registered: November 29, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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quote:
Originally posted by Tgrshrk99:
Is there an adapter that doesn’t require drilling?


I don’t know anything about the company, but this is similar to the type of adapter I have on my rifles. With just one screw attachment that goes into the original sling swivel stud hole, it may have a tendency to twist with a bipod attached. My adapters are the Command Arms Accessories UPR, but unfortunately that item seems to have been discontinued by the manufacturer. Some vendors still list it, but most show it as out of stock, “backordered,” or discontinued. I wouldn’t wait for any of them to ever get it back in stock. It might be possible to find it as old stock someplace. The advantage of the UPR is that is has two set screws to help prevent rotating when used with a bipod. They do, however, mar the stock because they have to be screwed in far enough to prevent movement.

I’ve also used a ProMag adapter. I’m not sure what its status is these days either, but I didn’t like it as much as the UPR because of its extra bulk that’s intended to serve as a hand stop. It didn’t have as much tendency to twist even though it attaches only to the sling swivel stud because it’s longer and contoured to fit the rounded bottom of the stock.

This may be the best option for what you want these days. I don’t have any experience with it, but for the price it might be worth a try. One reviewer even said he uses it on a Tikka T3 CTR. It seems to be well regarded and is available from a number of vendors.

Here is another option I am not familiar with, and it’s pricy, but it may be something to consider.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38217 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
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Thanks Sigfreund. These are great options.
 
Posts: 355 | Location: Between here and the end of the line | Registered: November 29, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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And as a final (maybe Wink ) comment, if you’re not aware of the fact, there are quick detach rail mount adapters for the Harris bipods. I never liked leaving a bipod on the rifle when in a case or storage, or when using the rifle from certain elevated rests. The QD mount has always been a must for me. Attaching and removing a Harris directly to the sling swivel stud isn’t particularly difficult or time-consuming, but it was always a nuisance. The only disadvantage other than cost to a QD mount is that it adds a little to the height of the bipod.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38217 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Ammoholic
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quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund

My adapters are the Command Arms Accessories UPR, but unfortunately that item seems to have been discontinued by the manufacturer.


I think I found one of these in stock and ordered it. Looking forward to seeing how it works. What height Atlas do you use? I’m looking at the PSR with lever attachment, which comes in 4.5 to 9 inch or 7-13 inch heights.
 
Posts: 355 | Location: Between here and the end of the line | Registered: November 29, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Originally posted by Tgrshrk99:
What height Atlas do you use? I’m looking at the PSR with lever attachment, which comes in 4.5 to 9 inch or 7-13 inch heights.


I bought my Atlas bipods when there weren’t as many variations. I have the BT10 V8 style with an A.R.M.S. QD mount. The heights they cite are evidently with the legs spread and then from the surface to the bottom of the friction adjustment screw at the top between the legs; on mine that’s about 4.75". To the mounting surface where the bottom of the rail on the rifle stock would rest is another 2 inches, but their QD mount might be slightly thinner than mine; I can’t tell for certain from the photos.

There are five locking notches on the legs of the bipods I have. Four are visible when the leg is extended completely, and none are visible when it’s collapsed all the way. When I’m shooting prone from a flat surface, I usually extend the legs to the middle (third) notch (exposing two). That changes the height from a nominal 4.75" to about 6.25". I’m old and decrepit and don’t have as much flexibility in my neck and back as I did 50 years ago, but sometimes I can shorten the legs to the second notch that puts the nominal height to the bottom of the friction adjustment about 5.50". Those measurements are all with the standard rubber feet; other feet will change the heights to a degree.

I don’t believe I’ve ever used the bipod at its full nominal height of 9 inches (+2" for the head). It could be possible, though, if I were ever on something like a ridge that sloped down in front of me. I do have a set of the 3" leg extensions, but other than seeing how they fit, I’ve never used them. In short, I have never felt the need for anything taller than the standard height bipod.




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38217 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Tgrshrk99:
I think I found one of these in stock and ordered it. Looking forward to seeing how it works. What height Atlas do you use? I’m looking at the PSR with lever attachment, which comes in 4.5 to 9 inch or 7-13 inch heights.

I have bipods with 5-9" legs on all my rifles, bolt actions and ARs. I have 3" leg extensions, plus leg extensions that I've cut to just over 1.5".

When I began precision rifle shooting, I used small rear bags and kept my rifle pretty low to the ground. I generally shot from flat ground to targets that were at the same elevation. My bipod legs were rarely extended much at this time.

Over time I transitioned to larger rear bags -- ones that supported both my shoulder and the buttstock. This requires the bipod legs be extended a little further in order to maintain a level rifle.

As I competed in more steel/tactical matches, I encountered more varied terrain. Shooting positions often had uneven and sloping ground. Targets were set at both up and down angles from the shooting position. As a result, I was constantly adjusting bipod leg lengths and found the 5-9" range inadequate at times. I now have both the 1.5" and 3" extensions with me at every match and practice. Sometimes I even combine both for a 4.5" extension. Other times I eliminate the extensions, collapse the legs, and rotate the legs forward or backward to further lower the front of the rifle.

I probably shoot most often with the 1.5" extensions added to my Atlas bipods.

Optimal bipod leg length depends a lot upon how you shoot.
 
Posts: 5388 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Suggestion for a scope mount is get a Near Alpha Mount. They are less expensive than a Spuhr, and much better.

You can have them made in any height and slope as you wish.


----------------------------------------

Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

George Carlin
 
Posts: 907 | Location: Colorado, and as far away from Denver as I can get. | Registered: March 13, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
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Originally posted by Alpine:
Suggestion for a scope mount is get a Near Alpha Mount. They are less expensive than a Spuhr, and much better.

You can have them made in any height and slope as you wish.


I am confused by the company’s site (assuming I found the right one). From the photos it appears that they make rings for Picatinny bases, but I couldn’t find any description or pricing of the rings. Are just the rings available with different heights and slopes? If so, do you have a link to that specific part of the site?




“Most men … can seldom accept the simplest and most obvious truth if it … would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions … which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabrics of their lives.”
— Leo Tolstoy
 
Posts: 38217 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I bought a Sphur mount a few years ago. Got mad at myself after buying it. It does absolutely nothing different compared to any other decent set of rings for much less. Sold it. Far better off spending the difference on ammo, practicing. Moving forward I ask the question will this accessory, scope rings, bi-pod.... help me shoot better? Decent set of rings simply hold the scope, not mess the scope tube up because of poor machining. Any of these brands and others fit that bill. Badger, Nighforce, Seekins.....

Suggest the shorter Atlas, can always add extensions if not tall enough.
 
Posts: 2484 | Location: 9860 ft above sea level Colorado | Registered: December 31, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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