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What was it that happened with the classic Sig 556 Rifles? Login/Join 
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quote:
Originally posted by kimberkid:

I thought it was fluted at first as well, its just the lighting.

Of my 556's, I got one of the early pistols which were rumored at the time to be made by SIG, however I think at best they may have had SIG bolts and barrels ... I don't know about that, but what I do know is that it was much smoother out of the box than either of my 2 earlier 556's, and while I still have the original 2 they are safe queens while this one makes it to the range almost as often as I do.



There is no doubt that the 556 could never hold a candle to a genuine 55X ... I didn't understand this until I bought a 552, then 551 and finally a 550.


Early 556 had Swiss bolt groups, likely fcg too, and were also rumored to use Swiss trunion castings. Who knows if the trunion casting rumor is correct. They were NEVER made in total by SwissArms.

Interestingly, there are some hybrids in Switzerland, where SwissArms assembled using a 551a1 upper and lower, but the bolt rail and trunion welds are distinctly Swiss, and a Swiss barrel was used. These have the Uber shitty 556 aluminum top rail found on all the US guns and the same craptastic irons found on the US guns. These can be found in some of the LaGardere catalogs.


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"AND YEA THOUGH THE HINDUS SPEAK OF KARMA, I IMPLORE YOU...GIVE HER A BREAK, LORD". - Clark W. Griswald
 
Posts: 2048 | Location: The South | Registered: September 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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early rifles had Swiss barrels. They are marked differently than US-spec barrels. That would lend credence to a Swiss trunion but alas, not having taken a barrel out on one to confirm thread pitch, can't confirm.
 
Posts: 2007 | Location: Leesburg VA | Registered: December 21, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Because of 922r, 556 rifles were never going to be all Swiss. At best, they would be some mixture of US and Swiss parts. While some early 556s had a few Swiss parts, I don’t remember that they were notably better than later 556s which had fewer Swiss parts. The early 556s also had problems, like canted top rails. Early 556s aren’t some sort of holy grail because they have a few Swiss parts.

Sig likely started the whole thing because they saw the high prices that the Swiss pre-bans were going for and tried to get in on the action. What they first came out with didn’t satisfy most people. Those who wanted a Swiss 551 clone thumbed their noses at the the abomination Sig first came out with, and the AR crowd weren’t interested in a high priced gun made up of proprietary parts. By the time they worked through many of the initial quality problems, and came out with the more 551-like Classic model, the damage was done.
 
Posts: 2025 | Location: South FL | Registered: February 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by PGT:
early rifles had Swiss barrels. They are marked differently than US-spec barrels. That would lend credence to a Swiss trunion but alas, not having taken a barrel out on one to confirm thread pitch, can't confirm.


Early rifles had FN barrels, based on what I remember from back when I cared about the 556. They were CHF taper bore nitride finished. Only some very early prototypes had Swiss barrels.


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"AND YEA THOUGH THE HINDUS SPEAK OF KARMA, I IMPLORE YOU...GIVE HER A BREAK, LORD". - Clark W. Griswald
 
Posts: 2048 | Location: The South | Registered: September 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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No, you're correct as usual. It was CHF vs. normal on early ones vs. Swiss.
 
Posts: 2007 | Location: Leesburg VA | Registered: December 21, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Dwill104:
Because of 922r, 556 rifles were never going to be all Swiss. At best, they would be some mixture of US and Swiss parts. While some early 556s had a few Swiss parts, I don’t remember that they were notably better than later 556s which had fewer Swiss parts. The early 556s also had problems, like canted top rails. Early 556s aren’t some sort of holy grail because they have a few Swiss parts.

Sig likely started the whole thing because they saw the high prices that the Swiss pre-bans were going for and tried to get in on the action. What they first came out with didn’t satisfy most people. Those who wanted a Swiss 551 clone thumbed their noses at the the abomination Sig first came out with, and the AR crowd weren’t interested in a high priced gun made up of proprietary parts. By the time they worked through many of the initial quality problems, and came out with the more 551-like Classic model, the damage was done.


Exeter could have done what Arsenal USA, Steyr, FN, CZ, IWI, etc have done and imported Swiss guns that get the 922(r) treatment in the US. Arsenal and FN really led the way with this model. It would have been very very simple, albeit with a high price tag.


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"AND YEA THOUGH THE HINDUS SPEAK OF KARMA, I IMPLORE YOU...GIVE HER A BREAK, LORD". - Clark W. Griswald
 
Posts: 2048 | Location: The South | Registered: September 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I can't say enough good about my P556. It's a little piggy is the only knock. It loves 62 grain most everything. I don't shoot 100 yard groups with it but 50 yard red dot groups produce clovers. Even with green tip, silver bear 62 grain, etc. It's baffling. Hates 55 grain and 75-77 aren't impressive either. I like the hybrid nature of the swiss design and AR stock and mags. I did however shoot the rail loose and had to secure it down, but no problems since.

Here's when I first got it, one of the first ones to arrive in stores. Here fishy fishy.



Setup now.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Slippery Pete,


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Posts: 5964 | Location: Bay Area | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by Slippery Pete:
<snip>
Here's when I first got it, one of the first ones to arrive in stores. Here fishy fishy.



Less the stock, that's exactly how mine looked when I got it in December 2008, I got it as a Christmas present to myself ... it may be worth noting, I applied for my stamp to SBR it on Jan 9,2009, approved on April 8, 2009 ... 3 months and this was when we were still mailing them in!
BTW, mine likes 62 grain best too ...

I made my own handguard end-cap and cut down a set of 551's. I never took a single picture with the fishy-guards on it, but theyre still in a box somewhere!



If you really want something you'll find a way ...
... if you don't you'll find an excuse.

I'm really not a "kid" anymore ... but I haven't grown up yet either Wink
 
Posts: 5157 | Registered: January 11, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I remember yours shooting good with 62 grain Silver Bear years back and it verified what I was seeing cause I couldn't believe it in mine.

I got a buddy who would probably pay to get you to make him that handguard cap. I had to look back and remember where I got mine, and they don't have anymore. So I sent him my fishy setup for his backup.

If they had braces back then I'd probably have 2 of these pistols. And I love the swiss stock, but for the pistol I like having the option of different lengths vs the folder). Generally I take the folder every time but this rifle is short enough already for me.


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Posts: 5964 | Location: Bay Area | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
LIBERTATEM DEFENDIMUS
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quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
quote:
Originally posted by Monk:
This. Who remembers those "The time has come" ads?
Yup, that got me to buy one.

Never had an issue but sold it for ARs after a year.


Yup, I remember those ads too. I was all wound up to get mine. I ended up getting one of the early ones. I replaced the goofy furniture and replaced it with a MagPul CTR stock and Swiss 551 hand guards, put the aftermarket Diopter Sights of the day on it. I still have it. It's actually a pretty decent carbine overall. First time out, just messing around with some cheap Remington ammo, I could literally stack bullet holes on top of each other using the diopter sights. Never really shot it much, maybe a couple mags or so. Was kicking around the idea of switching my Aimpoint PRO over to it.

BUT...

When SIG stopped supporting the 556, it pretty much killed any interest I had in shooting it regularly. Now it's pretty much a safe queen.
 
Posts: 5129 | Registered: October 18, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Those adds made my adrenalin fire like nothing else. I've wanted a 550 series forever. I recall seeing the fishy furniture of those adds and thinking, they might release that one which is fine, but they'll surely bring us the Swiss model. Never happened. Never understood that.


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Posts: 5964 | Location: Bay Area | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I had a patrol swat that I had to sell before moving to CT. (banned by name)

Since I moved to VA I picked up a 556R which I like a lot more than the 556 PS.

556 PS, I bought this circa 2008-09. It was gassy as all fuck. Constant gass in the face, no matter what gas port i had it on. 15 shots and you had to take a break. It would shoot 3" groups at 100 yds with 62 grain ammo. It was not super accurate. It would only feed from certain mags. The sig mags of course, but the mag pul of the day were hit and miss, as were the 30 round metal mags. The mag puls would not drop free. Sig replaced the stock on it 3 times as the plastick tabs holing the cover for the expanding section broke under recoil with use. The final thing it did that drove me nuts, rip the case heads off the brass. That extractor would just fucking demolish the brass. Rip them completely appart. I think I popped 50 or 60 stuck cases out of the gun in the time I owned it. new brass ammo, used brass ammo, 223, 5.56, Steel cases would just get stuck, but not very often.

Okay now that my bitching is done, I loved the controls, grip angle, diaopter sights. All its faults aside, I adored the rifle. If i ever find another one, I would seriously consider picking it up.










Where as my 556R. No gas in the face, Eats everything, works with every type of mag, eats every type of ammo, has the cheesiest cheese dick red dot on it that will never die. shoots 1.25 inch groups at 100yds on a rest with shit wolf ammo. Recoil is not unpleasant, has great ergo's and is just downright a fine gun to own.





 
Posts: 5613 | Location: Virginia | Registered: December 23, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yep, it's a dam shame Sig let stuff like that one out the door. I wonder also if that particular rifle's gas port was drilled assuming the barrel would be cut down and would be correctly gassed for the SBR or pistol. I think that's the type of scenario that happens on the Arsenal CR models.

I do remember that model and it seemed like Sig didn't only intend for it to be cut down so who knows. I was lucky enough to get that branded Pelican case too. Nice score.


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Posts: 5964 | Location: Bay Area | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I have to say, other than the lack of support, I can't complain about my 556 rifles at all. All of mine are later-ish models with Swiss stocks.

I have a 556 SWAT Classic that I turned into a DMR, shoots just great.

I have a 556 SWAT Patrol that I've run in many many multi-gun matches, handles and shoots very well.

I have a 556R (Gen2) with the same shitty red dot, and it works just great. I've used it in multi gun matches as well with zero hiccups.

Last but not least is a 522 Classic that shoots everything and is a total blast/crowd pleaser.


IDPA ESP SS
 
Posts: 756 | Location: Nashville, TN | Registered: January 03, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by PGT:
The triggers on them are the same as the Swiss versions...not sure who could call it "crappy". Far nicer than a bone-stock USGI AR15 trigger and it's adjustable to boot.

I think the super heavy Israeli furniture didn't help and frankly, an AR15 is a cheaper, better balanced rifle. Still...I love the 55x.



I've sold all but one US-made 556 and I've had far too many. Reason? I have all Swiss versions now. And, this one is "unique" and not easily sold LOL. All Swiss parts added to it including the rear diopter welded to the rail.





Is that one of the diopter/rails made by I believe MFI a number of years ago? Screws on as a replacement for the canted rail?

Found it:
https://mfiap.com/i-21836523-m...a-priority-mail.html
 
Posts: 237 | Location: Virginia | Registered: October 10, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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PGT, who makes that handhuard you're running? Haven't seen that before.


IDPA ESP SS
 
Posts: 756 | Location: Nashville, TN | Registered: January 03, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Not an MFI; it's a factory diopter setup welded on to a rail. The handguard I think was a factory one that was sanded down to smooth on the sides and welded one-piece with the upper rail. I've since cut the pieces so I can still run the Swiss handguards which I really like.
 
Posts: 2007 | Location: Leesburg VA | Registered: December 21, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
So let it be written,
so let it be done...
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Thanks all - appreciate it! Those are some nice examples - seems like a love hate relationship for some Smile



'Live long and prosper'
 
Posts: 3141 | Location: Kansas | Registered: April 28, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Bought mine from a SF member years ago, my first non hunting rifle. No research on it, just liked the pics and bought it.

Must say, after 1000's of rounds through it, it has been flawless. Disappointed there is no support from Sig if it ever does fail. Even more disappointed that I don't know what parts to try to find ahead of time to keep it going, should it ever fail.

Have recently decided to go with AR platforms for the continuity of parts, but will never give up my 556!!


_________________________________________________

"Once abolish the God, and the Government becomes the God." --- G.K. Chesterton
 
Posts: 2508 | Location:  | Registered: April 11, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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another fan here

variety is the spice of life -- just something different but i wish they still supported it. loved that it took AR15 mags.

in retrospect -- it kinda makes sense -- when it came out it was just a couple years after the sunset of the 'Assault Weapons Ban'. Sig at that time was mostly a handgun company in the US.

the 556 allowed them to 'quickly' come to market with an AR-type offering that they had the intellectual / engineering / process expertise to manufacture and market.

eventually the whole MSR market shifted massively to the familiar 'M4 / AR15' style design. So the market spoke and the writing was on the wall.

personally i just like having something different.

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Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
 
Posts: 7646 | Location: Florida | Registered: September 20, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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