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Posts: 600 | Location: Gatesville, TX | Registered: January 07, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Do it yourself emergency revolver kit since they are out of production for bear or wilderness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXatjovO-l0
 
Posts: 600 | Location: Gatesville, TX | Registered: January 07, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
addicted to trailing-throttle oversteer
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Black bear around the outlying urban areas around here have become VERY accustomed to humans. Bear encounters are now a regular thing. But go deeper into the back country, it's still less a happening but as us "adventurous" humans/city dwellers continue to invade those territories, the amount of face-to-face encounters is inevitably going to increase. The human population keeps growing in leaps and bounds, while the amount of areas left where the animals can be left alone is almost nil. Something's going to give.

Ball .357MAG or a 10mm hot load will take care of an onerous black bear around here. Hot 357SIG will mostly work in a pinch as well. Bear spray works pretty well...most of the time. All three calibers are ample for a cornered or pissed off cougar. I've had only one kind of close encounter with a big cat and it was fairly recent after all of these decades, and the mountain lion wanted no part of it. As long as the stupid human doesn't go dumbo and try following the animal, that usually is the end of it. Bear and cub(s) is another matter. I know of encounters from friends, associates and customers but have none myself...even when purposely hunting them Frown.

I continue to carry my GP100 as my primary backcountry handgun, riding in a DD chest rig though I will admit that it gets 'crowded' if I want binos at the ready. My G23 resides in my packed gear as a backup; not the best secondary solution but carrying on the hip gets complicated in balancing out the added mass.

Going dumbo:



Link to original video: https://youtu.be/_9fGdd4-Wlc
 
Posts: 7691 | Location: Drippin' wet | Registered: April 18, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
A 9X19 isn't going to concern, or hurt a bear.


I beg to differ. After going through gyrations for decades, over the last couple of years I have gone to carrying my usual 9mm “on-pavement” guns, but switching the off-pavement ammo over to Buffalo Bore 147 grain +P Outdoorsman hard cast lead flat point. It will penetrate plenty deep enough to break stuff and leave a mark. (FYI. No grizzlies in my area, just black bears.)

Out of a Glock 19:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ursfz1Wg8hA

Out of a Glock 26:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sOM_3DIdNw

I only got 6 jugs of penetration out of a Glock 43, but I think that is because my aim was not precise enough.

In .45 ACP, the Buffalo Bore 255 grain +P hard cast flat point easily penetrates 10 jugs, but I have stopped carrying a Glock 30SF since the 9mm Outdoorsman round became readily available.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Cheyenne,
 
Posts: 180 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: August 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
That rug really tied
the room together.
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Arizona?

9MM or larger. An Arizona black bear would be dealt with quite capably with a 9MM or larger.

Id carry a Glock 26 personally.


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Posts: 4004 | Location: Floriduh | Registered: October 16, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Like I said, you can convince yourself that your 9X19 will stand up against a bear. Best of luck convincing the bear of the same.

Gunfights against water jugs and against bears may differ somewhat. Good luck.
 
Posts: 1494 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Not really from Vienna
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Guess this grizzly didn't know a 9mm wasn't lethal to bears:

https://www.americanhunter.org...zly-with-9mm-pistol/




 
Posts: 21093 | Location: Young American Teen Club | Registered: January 30, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I've never been involved in a bear attack, nor do I ever want to. I've got a few guns for hiking in the back woods. Not that I use them all, but I'll try one, see how I like it, then try another, and so on.

I really like .44 Magnum as a woods load, especially since I hand load it. For hunting, I can go for a full-power load, 240 grains @ 1350 fps. Generally for the full-power loads, I use factory ammo. For more of a back-woods self defense load, I have a hand load that I like, which works out to 240 grains @ 1050-1100 fps. I like this load because it still develops a good amount of velocity with a nice heavy bullet, but it generates very light, controllable recoil, which is nice if I have to pull off multiple shots, or if I only have the use of one arm.

I bought a 10mm 1911 back in January for use as a back woods defense pistol in place of the .44. I liked the idea of having a single action trigger with a powerful round. I've been using the SIG Elite performance 180 grain FMJ, which develops about as much power as a full-house .357 Magnum. (Aside from Underwood or Buffalo Bore, etc.) . I'm beginning to think that the 10mm may be the perfect back woods defense caliber. It's a bit of a compromise when it comes in comparison with a full-house .44 or .454, in terms of energy. However, when it comes to the ability to accurately fire successive shots, plus with the availability of high-capacity offerings like the Glock 20, it really seems like an excellent hiking cartridge.

I also keep bear spray, which is my first choice. I don't particularly want to harm a bear unless I have no other choice. However, should the need arise, I think either the .44 or 10mm are both good options depending on what is important to you.


"Like a horse has its rider, and the sky has its moon, a man has his loneliness, mistaken as pride." -Longmire
 
Posts: 527 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: January 19, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Lehigh Defense extreme penetrator is a game changer for bear defense. You're not looking for expansion just penetration. The Lehigh penetrator round will get it done in common defense calibers with a higher round count and less weight than a 42 ounce magnum revolver.


DPR
 
Posts: 320 | Registered: March 10, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by arfmel:
Guess this grizzly didn't know a 9mm wasn't lethal to bears:

https://www.americanhunter.org...zly-with-9mm-pistol/


1) He got lucky.
2) He's got 25 years experience dealing with bears
3) He had exceptional shot placement under stress with a charging bear (you won't)
4) The bear wasn't charging him
5) His normal carry is a .44 Magnum, not 9X19
6) The bear ran away and died. He didn't stop the bear
7) Had the bear not run away and died, he'd have been out of luck.
8) He was out of ammunition; 1 round remaining, and he wasn't willing to go check on the bear with one round remaining
9) Do you feel lucky?
10) Good luck.
 
Posts: 1494 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Phil Shoemaker was in the middle of a discussion on the topic of bear defense guns on another forum when the grizzly incident occurred. He had tested the Outdoorsman round against grizzly skulls and concluded that the round would take any black bear walking. After the incident, he provided some validation for the prospect of carrying a firearm with follow-up capability in a package that the user can handle.

The thread can be found here. Shoemaker posts as 458Win. Unfortunately, a lot of the picture links went down when Photobucket pulled its recent shenanigans.
 
Posts: 180 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: August 14, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
A 9X19 isn't going to concern, or hurt a bear. Not in any meaningful way during the time you have an encounter. You might piss it off a bit, but rest assured you'll be more impressed with the 9mm than the bear.

You're better off with bear spray than a 9mm.

Don't count on scaring off a cat. If you happen to be startling the cat and it doesn't want to be seen, it will move away. They've also been known to double back or reposition and wait or you. They're ambush predators, and they don't face off.

Bears may move, or they may not. They usually don't feel inclined. The notion that they don't like being around people is incorrect. Often people attract them, often it's the scent of food, and not necessarily you. They're an apex predator, though, and you're not intimidating to them.

The old joke is that hikers are warned to wear bells to make themselves heard, so the animals know you're coming. Look for signs of the animals, particularly the bear scat. You know it's bear scat because it smells like pepper spray and it's full of little bells.

Pepper spray, a full size, formulated spray, is effective, though it's not going to stop a charging bear.

10mm, for the most part, not particularly effective. .44 magnum, marginally so. Bigger is better, and a 12 gauge rifled slug is a start. A lever gun or larger game rifle, better, but you're still not likely to be effective or see a rapid stop if attacked. This is particularly the case with grizzlys.

In Arizona, black bear are what you may encounter, and there are cats which you'll be very lucky to see. Bear aren't common. Black bear aren't known to attack, generally, and cat attacks are rare. The question is whether you're carrying to make yourself feel better, or the animal feel worse, and if the choice is 9mm or something of that nature, you're only making yourself feel better if you're carrying it for bear protection. You'll feel worse if you need to use it because it won't help.

Even in the woods, especially in some parts of AZ, two legged threats are a far bigger concern than cats or bears. In those cases, your favorite service caliber and firearm is a better choice...but those threats you encounter, particularly in the southern forests, are likely to be better armed than you are, and far less concerned about who they hurt to protect their cargo.



https://www.buffalobore.com/in...product_detail&p=388

Phil Shoemaker dropped a chaqrging grizzly with his 9mm.
 
Posts: 4339 | Location: Alaska | Registered: June 12, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Cheyenne:
quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
A 9X19 isn't going to concern, or hurt a bear.


I beg to differ. After going through gyrations for decades, over the last couple of years I have gone to carrying my usual 9mm “on-pavement” guns, but switching the off-pavement ammo over to Buffalo Bore 147 grain +P Outdoorsman hard cast lead flat point. It will penetrate plenty deep enough to break stuff and leave a mark. (FYI. No grizzlies in my area, just black bears.)

Out of a Glock 19:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ursfz1Wg8hA

Out of a Glock 26:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sOM_3DIdNw

I only got 6 jugs of penetration out of a Glock 43, but I think that is because my aim was not precise enough.

In .45 ACP, the Buffalo Bore 255 grain +P hard cast flat point easily penetrates 10 jugs, but I have stopped carrying a Glock 30SF since the 9mm Outdoorsman round became readily available.


Yup, the buffalo bore 147g +P hardcast sort of changes things a bit. A guide on the Alaska Peninsula recently dropped a charging grizzly with his 9mm using that ammo.

I read an interview and he said that he was glad he had his 9mm because he felt certain he wouldnt have been able to make as many accurate follow up shots with his 44 mag. This guy isnt a run of the mill guide either, hes been guiding the becharof for over 30 years, hes a bush pilot and he is highly respected in this part of the state of Alaska.

he still carries a 9mm after this incident.
 
Posts: 4339 | Location: Alaska | Registered: June 12, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by newmexican:

Yup, the buffalo bore 147g +P hardcast sort of changes things a bit. A guide on the Alaska Peninsula recently dropped a charging grizzly with his 9mm using that ammo.


Already covered. Read above.

quote:
Originally posted by newmexican:

I read an interview and he said that he was glad he had his 9mm because he felt certain he wouldnt have been able to make as many accurate follow up shots with his 44 mag.


Of course, he wouldn't have needed to.

quote:
Originally posted by newmexican:

This guy isnt a run of the mill guide either, hes been guiding the becharof for over 30 years, hes a bush pilot and he is highly respected in this part of the state of Alaska.


You don't really think that being a pilot has anything to do with the topic whatsoever, do you?

I don't think the bear cared much about his reputation, either.

quote:
Originally posted by newmexican:
he still carries a 9mm after this incident.


But, of course. It's his lucky pistol.

Do you feel that lucky?
 
Posts: 1494 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
quote:
Originally posted by newmexican:

Yup, the buffalo bore 147g +P hardcast sort of changes things a bit. A guide on the Alaska Peninsula recently dropped a charging grizzly with his 9mm using that ammo.


Already covered. Read above.

quote:
Originally posted by newmexican:

I read an interview and he said that he was glad he had his 9mm because he felt certain he wouldnt have been able to make as many accurate follow up shots with his 44 mag.


Of course, he wouldn't have needed to.

quote:
Originally posted by newmexican:

This guy isnt a run of the mill guide either, hes been guiding the becharof for over 30 years, hes a bush pilot and he is highly respected in this part of the state of Alaska.


You don't really think that being a pilot has anything to do with the topic whatsoever, do you?

I don't think the bear cared much about his reputation, either.

quote:
Originally posted by newmexican:
he still carries a 9mm after this incident.


But, of course. It's his lucky pistol.

Do you feel that lucky?



Ill take the word of the guy who does it over some random guy on the internet (you). Thanks though. Im not sure why you feel the need to cherry pick this, I was just mentioning that hes a respected guide and pilot in the state.
 
Posts: 4339 | Location: Alaska | Registered: June 12, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Good luck.
 
Posts: 1494 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I read through the thread posted by Cheyenne. Talk about a hairy situation. (Phil Shoemaker greased an attacking brown bear with a 9mm) Sounds like the way he got out was by practicing the skill of landing multiple shots accurately and quickly.

The whole thing is worth a read. Pretty exciting. Very informative, especially since its written by someone with lots of first hand experience.


"Like a horse has its rider, and the sky has its moon, a man has his loneliness, mistaken as pride." -Longmire
 
Posts: 527 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: January 19, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
quote:
Originally posted by newmexican:

Yup, the buffalo bore 147g +P hardcast sort of changes things a bit. A guide on the Alaska Peninsula recently dropped a charging grizzly with his 9mm using that ammo.


Already covered. Read above.

quote:
Originally posted by newmexican:

I read an interview and he said that he was glad he had his 9mm because he felt certain he wouldnt have been able to make as many accurate follow up shots with his 44 mag.


Of course, he wouldn't have needed to.

quote:
Originally posted by newmexican:

This guy isnt a run of the mill guide either, hes been guiding the becharof for over 30 years, hes a bush pilot and he is highly respected in this part of the state of Alaska.


You don't really think that being a pilot has anything to do with the topic whatsoever, do you?

I don't think the bear cared much about his reputation, either.

quote:
Originally posted by newmexican:
he still carries a 9mm after this incident.


But, of course. It's his lucky pistol.

Do you feel that lucky?


Just out of curiosity, how many bears have you shot while hunting or in self defense? Can you give us some background on your experience with bears, and how that prepares you to offer up the opinions you have?

Phil Shoemaker, living, flying and bear guiding on the AK Peninsula, has forgotten more about large grizzly bears than nearly everyone on the internet knows combined (only a slight exaggeration). I live in AK, am around grizzly bears daily, have killed three grizzly bears, two hunting and one in self defense. I was charged by a grizzly in July, that turned at 25 yards, and I did not have to shoot. Bush pilots get lots of experience with bears, because bears hang around in the "bush," and that is where bush pilots fly.
 
Posts: 86 | Registered: September 19, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Drill Here, Drill Now
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I lived in Alaska from '09-'14, and inside the city limits there were ~60 brown bear and ~350 black bear. I've been less than 35 feet from both polar bear and brown bear in the wild, and I know what the professionals carried (alaska fish & game - 12 ga with Breneke black magic; north slope bear hazers - 12 ga with firecracker then bean bag then 4 slugs, and Inupiat guides - .30-06 to .375 H& H). I started with a .44 mag then upgraded to a .454 Casull, and had a 12 ga with Breneke black magic in camp.

Since the OP is only dealing with black bear, I would go .357 mag or more in revolver and .45 ACP or more (eg 10mm) in semi-auto. If I were buying a new gun for the OP's situation, it would be a 10mm with a 6" barrel (eg Glock 40).



Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.
 
Posts: 14858 | Location: N. Houston, TX | Registered: November 14, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by GJM AK:
quote:
Originally posted by sns3guppy:
quote:
Originally posted by newmexican:

Yup, the buffalo bore 147g +P hardcast sort of changes things a bit. A guide on the Alaska Peninsula recently dropped a charging grizzly with his 9mm using that ammo.



My thoughts exactly. Where do you live? I live near the top of the Alaska Peninsula.
Already covered. Read above.

quote:
Originally posted by newmexican:

I read an interview and he said that he was glad he had his 9mm because he felt certain he wouldnt have been able to make as many accurate follow up shots with his 44 mag.


Of course, he wouldn't have needed to.

quote:
Originally posted by newmexican:

This guy isnt a run of the mill guide either, hes been guiding the becharof for over 30 years, hes a bush pilot and he is highly respected in this part of the state of Alaska.


You don't really think that being a pilot has anything to do with the topic whatsoever, do you?

I don't think the bear cared much about his reputation, either.

quote:
Originally posted by newmexican:
he still carries a 9mm after this incident.


But, of course. It's his lucky pistol.

Do you feel that lucky?


Just out of curiosity, how many bears have you shot while hunting or in self defense? Can you give us some background on your experience with bears, and how that prepares you to offer up the opinions you have?

Phil Shoemaker, living, flying and bear guiding on the AK Peninsula, has forgotten more about large grizzly bears than nearly everyone on the internet knows combined (only a slight exaggeration). I live in AK, am around grizzly bears daily, have killed three grizzly bears, two hunting and one in self defense. I was charged by a grizzly in July, that turned at 25 yards, and I did not have to shoot. Bush pilots get lots of experience with bears, because bears hang around in the "bush," and that is where bush pilots fly.
 
Posts: 4339 | Location: Alaska | Registered: June 12, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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