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Does anyone run this in their jframes? Login/Join 
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Picture of Ironmike57
posted
This is intriguing ammo to run in a snub. Has anyone had any experience with it?

https://www.buffalobore.com/in...product_detail&p=111
 
Posts: 974 | Location: Hollywood,Florida | Registered: July 26, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
That rug really tied
the room together.
Picture of bubbatime
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It would work fine. Any reason you would pick those over Gold Dot, Winchester bonded, or Golden Sabre, all good .38 special loads?


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Posts: 4008 | Location: Floriduh | Registered: October 16, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Expert308
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Pushing a buck and a half a round seems a little steep for wadcutters, though.
 
Posts: 5084 | Location: Portland, OR | Registered: February 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I haven't tried it, but given the ballistics are nearly the same as BB's standard pressure FBI load, I'd rather go with the FBI load. I've used that load in J-frames and I wouldn't hesitate to carry it if I didn't have any 135gr Gold Dots. Plus, I'm not a fan of non-HP bullets for self defense.



"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." Sherlock Holmes
 
Posts: 814 | Registered: February 26, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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Interesting load.

I don’t have any experience with it myself. At one time, though, there were many fans of the idea of using full wadcutter bullets for defensive purposes, especially members of the handgun bullet power makes no difference to wounding effects crowd. The theory was that the sharp shoulder would be more effective at cutting tissue rather than just pushing it out of way. But even those folks don’t seem to believe that good hollow point bullets aren’t better (or at least they’re not willing to deny it out loud). Hollow points don’t always expand properly—especially at low velocities—though, and a wadcutter can be relied upon to perform the same way every time.

The advantage of the Buffalo Bore load over the old 148 grain hollow base full wadcutter target load is its higher velocity that evidently runs several hundred feet per second faster. The 148 grain full WC target load’s traditional velocity was about 700 fps from 4 inches, and from personal observation I know that when fired from a 4 inch barrel it’s capable of through and through penetration of a man’s chest. Greater velocity would of course produce deeper penetration if the angle of fire was different or it had to go through heavier clothing, the bones or muscle of an arm, etc.

I am skeptical of the claim that the Buffalo Bore load is safe for all vintages of revolver. Its chamber pressure may indeed be less than the maximum SAAMI +P 38 Special figure, but there’s more to the issue than chamber pressure. The cylinder is stressed by the pressure a revolver cartridge generates, but even if a round doesn’t blow the gun up, the forces associated with recoil affect other parts of the gun. It was common for various gun gurus in the 1960s and ’70s to claim, for example, that extensive firing of full power magnum loads would ultimately damage S&W K frame revolvers chambered for 357 Magnum and N frames chambered for 44 Magnum. The guns weren’t blowing up with factory ammunition, but the cumulative damage was supposedly being done.

There are two +P 38 Special loads that I’ve relied upon for carry purposes over the years. The first is the 158 grain (unjacketed) lead hollow point, and more recently, the Speer 135 grain Gold Dot “Short Barrel” load. From a ~2" barrel, the LHP load runs not much more than 700 fps, and the Speer MV has been measured as about 860 fps. I believe that it’s recoil that batters a gun, and that’s based on projectile momentum. A convenient way of comparing the recoil of different loads is to calculate their power factors, which is the first figure after the load identification below. If, however, it’s believed that kinetic energy is what causes battering and other stress and wear, that’s the second figure after the forward slash.

(All figures are rounded to the decimal.)
Buffalo Bore 150 grain wadcutter: 130 PF / 251 ft-lb KE
Winchester 158 grain LHP: 111 PF / 172 ft-lb KE
Speer 135 grain Gold Dot: 116 PF / 222 ft-lb KE

Based on the above figures, it seems obvious to me that although both the LHP and Gold Dot loads are rated as +P it’s very likely that the Buffalo Bore load with its higher values in both momentum and kinetic energy would be harder on a gun than the other two. It would also generate more recoil that either of the others.

And based on the gel-type testing I’ve found for the two loads I’ve carried, I will give up entirely on the old unjacketed lead hollow point. It seems to expand virtually not at all through clothing barriers even though in my own testing of years ago it will expand if fired directly into water. The 135 grain Gold Dot bullet is shown in at least a couple of videos of expanding and producing a decent cavity when fired through heavy clothing, and penetrating to about 13 inches in gelatin. I probably might not want to use the load in a vintage gun, but I wouldn’t rely on a vintage gun for serious purposes anyway.




“[T]ry not to shoot any friendlies ….”
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Posts: 37361 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Casuistic Thinker and Daoist
Picture of 9mmepiphany
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Not that exact loading, but I have played with many wadcutter loads (both HB and DE) over the years...I started with a revolver, in LE, in 1979...in a number of S&W J-frames. (many of which we wore out)

I can relate that while BB claims that this isn't a +P loading, this 150gr bullet running at 850fps:
1. isn't going to be pleasant to shoot
2. is going to be hard on the gun if you intend to practice regularly
3. is going to be a bitch to reload with either a speed strip or a speedloader.

I'm also a fan of the 135gr Gold Dot




No, Daoism isn't a religion



 
Posts: 13030 | Location: northern california | Registered: February 07, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
I am skeptical of the claim that the Buffalo Bore load is safe for all vintages of revolver.


FWIW, I treat BB's standard pressure ammo as +P in my guns.



"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." Sherlock Holmes
 
Posts: 814 | Registered: February 26, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
That rug really tied
the room together.
Picture of bubbatime
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These test are really good. Click on the red tab that says "barrel length" and it will sort the 2 inch snubs to the top and be easier to compare.

https://www.luckygunner.com/la...llistics-test/#38spl

The Winchester Ranger Bonded and Remington Golden Sabre did well in these tests.


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Posts: 4008 | Location: Floriduh | Registered: October 16, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Another good 38spl. round is the Cor-Bon DPX 110gr.


"A man should never be parted one step from his weapon; neither on the road, nor on his field does he know when he will need his sword."
 
Posts: 2 | Location: N.Georgia mountains | Registered: December 04, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of egregore
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His gunfight experiences were 50 years ago and ammo has improved since then, but the late Jim Cirillo was a proponent of wadcutter-shaped bullets. He found that round nose solids (typical .38 Special load of the time and still sold today) would glance off skull bones and burrow under the skin, while (he felt) the sharp edges of wadcutters would "bite in" and penetrate. If still in print, his book Guns, Bullets and Gunfights goes into more detail.

A wadcutter would be OK to carry already loaded into the gun, but you want a JHP for the reload, as it will slip into the chambers more easily than anything with a shoulder.



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Posts: 19441 | Location: Johnson City/Elizabethton, TN | Registered: April 28, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Sgt Neutron
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I currently have 135 gr. Gold Dots in my 642. I saw these which are similar to the BB but in a +P loading. Looks like a HBWC loaded backwards, similar to the old Webley "Manstopper" round from around 1900.

https://www.range365.com/feder...ammo-coming-to-range

Here's a video of a gelatin test of the load:
https://www.full30.com/video/a...fa6c22899dc3d010d359

I might switch to these. The big drawback is that they are difficult to do a quick reload with. Keep the wadcutters loaded in the gun, but use a tapered bullet design (JHP) for a reload
 
Posts: 1048 | Location: Washington (State) | Registered: August 30, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I started with nothing,
and still have most of it
Picture of stiab
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The original Hydra-Shoks (before Federal bought the rights) were wad cutter design, but still had the post. I think wad cutters ("Clean Cutting" or "Sharp Corner" as they were originally called) are still a viable bullet design choice for self defense.


"While not every Democrat is a horse thief, every horse thief is a Democrat." HORACE GREELEY
 
Posts: 1472 | Location: Central NC | Registered: May 18, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Ironmike57
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Good find, Sarge. I will have to try these.


quote:
Originally posted by Sgt Neutron:
I currently have 135 gr. Gold Dots in my 642. I saw these which are similar to the BB but in a +P loading. Looks like a HBWC loaded backwards, similar to the old Webley "Manstopper" round from around 1900.

https://www.range365.com/feder...ammo-coming-to-range

Here's a video of a gelatin test of the load:
https://www.full30.com/video/a...fa6c22899dc3d010d359

I might switch to these. The big drawback is that they are difficult to do a quick reload with. Keep the wadcutters loaded in the gun, but use a tapered bullet design (JHP) for a reload
 
Posts: 974 | Location: Hollywood,Florida | Registered: July 26, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Ironmike57
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Hey Bubba,
I am looking to pick up another j frame for a car gun. An anti car jacking gun, if you will. Something that I can access quickly and is lighter in recoil. Strong or weak handed.

I use a bunch of different loads in my 649, but I was thinking of wadcutters as a one trick pony.

quote:
Originally posted by bubbatime:
It would work fine. Any reason you would pick those over Gold Dot, Winchester bonded, or Golden Sabre, all good .38 special loads?
 
Posts: 974 | Location: Hollywood,Florida | Registered: July 26, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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