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My supply of Speer gold dot 38special 135gr +p has dwindled and I'm not finding it anywhere. I did locate some of the new Federal "micro" 130gr +p hst ammunition (P38HST1S). It's appearance is like a wadcutter target round. The hollow point HST bullet is seated flush with the top of the case. Searching the internet for performance information has not produced a lot of information. Anybody here have knowledge, experience or opinion about this ammo?
 
Posts: 558 | Location: Ohio & UP of Michigan | Registered: April 18, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don't have any info on the .38 Special HST, but from what I've read it seems to at least be an adequate performer in gel.

FYI, the SB-GDHP is produced in cycles, every 3-4 months, IIRC. You may just have to wait a bit. If you haven't done so already, I'd suggest signing up for e-mail notifications/updates with an online vendor so you can get a heads-up when they have it in stock.

If I ran out of SB-GDHP and couldn't get more, my next choice would be some version of the FBI load. Buffalo Bore's standard pressure version would be my first choice, followed by Remington's.



"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." Sherlock Holmes
 
Posts: 1046 | Registered: February 26, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I guess we think alike henryarnaud. For quite some time,I have been on the email notification list at SGAmmo for the 135gr gold dot ammo. It's what my wife carries in her 442. When I carry my model 38, it's loaded with standard pressure Buffalo Bore 158gr SWCHP. I did buy some of the HST micro which my wife will experiment with.
 
Posts: 558 | Location: Ohio & UP of Michigan | Registered: April 18, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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It appears this 38 special load hasn't generated very much interest since it was introduced. Oh well..........
 
Posts: 558 | Location: Ohio & UP of Michigan | Registered: April 18, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
To all of you who are serving or have served our country, Thank You
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I've watch just about evey 38 special video denim gel test on the internet I could find over the last five years. As I carry a 38 Special often. The Federal 130 grain HST +P is one of the better 38 Special SDL from what I can see. Would of like to see a little more velocity but perhaps that is part of it I don't know. The Speer 135 SB +P Gold can also do well most of the time but is not always consistent.

The 38 Special +P 100 Grain Lehigh Xtreme Defense bullet is another good one IMO. It is available from Underwood in +P and non +P and Blackhills +P. This bullet is consistent with or without denim.

Here is a couple examples.





....Shredding lead both barrels
 
Posts: 1649 | Registered: March 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
3° that never cooled
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I shot some of the .38 130 HST +P Micro for the first time a few days ago. I used a S&W 642 with ~2" barrel. I had no way to test terminal ballistics, but did chronograph it, and shoot it at 15 yards. Five rounds averaged 826 FPS. At 15 yards, POI was very close to POA. That, together with the gelatin tests I've seen, indicates to me that Federal may have something here.


COTEP #640, NRA Life
 
Posts: 1261 | Location: Under the Tonto Rim | Registered: August 18, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thanks for posting your chronograph results rock185. Happy to hear that you found POI to be about the same as POA. When the weather dries up I hope we find the same result on our range.

I thought the "Mrgunsngear" guy contradicted himself while explaining the lower penetration performance from a 4" barrel being due to greater velocity. His video showed a message that the 4" barrel produced lower velocity than the 2" barrel. At least that's what I got out of the video. He also doesn't describe the gel's makeup either so I'm not sure if I learned much from his testing. Perhaps, in time, there will be more information available.
 
Posts: 558 | Location: Ohio & UP of Michigan | Registered: April 18, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by ohioup:
I thought the "Mrgunsngear" guy contradicted himself while explaining the lower penetration performance from a 4" barrel being due to greater velocity. His video showed a message that the 4" barrel produced lower velocity than the 2" barrel.


I didn't see any mention of the 4" producing lower velocity. As for the lower penetration from the 4", he's correct. While there's some variability depending on bullet construction, higher velocities can result in less penetration with HP because the bullet expands more, slowing the bullet down more quickly. I saw no contradiction.



"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." Sherlock Holmes
 
Posts: 1046 | Registered: February 26, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The chronograph in the window at lower left in the video is hard to read. It would sure make sense that velocity was higher from the 4" vs the 2" barrel and I do understand that higher velocity can lead to less penetration for the reasons stated.

At 2:06 minutes a printed message came on screen saying: "While shooting I didn't realize the 4" actually had lower velocities on average. Very interesting..." What was meant by that?
 
Posts: 558 | Location: Ohio & UP of Michigan | Registered: April 18, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by ohioup:
The chronograph in the window at lower left in the video is hard to read. It would sure make sense that velocity was higher from the 4" vs the 2" barrel and I do understand that higher velocity can lead to less penetration for the reasons stated.

At 2:06 minutes a printed message came on screen saying: "While shooting I didn't realize the 4" actually had lower velocities on average. Very interesting..." What was meant by that?


Gotcha. I actually just watched the gel comparison part at the end of the video. Apologies.

It is interesting. However, there have been such things as "fast" or "slow" barrels.

Some hypotheses...

The 642 is newer, with the new EDM rifling, which theoretically could give the bullet a better seal in the barrel, resulting in higher velocities than the older, more traditionally rifled Model 10.

Also, being older, there could be more wear in the bore, resulting in even less bullet seal and thus lower velocity.

There could also be differences in barrel/cylinder gap.

One other thought, though I don't think it's particularly likely, is that the HST's powder could be formulated to burn more completely within a 2" barrel, so it would achieve it's maximum velocity out of a 2" barrel. Firing it from a 4" barrel would then cause added friction in the last 2" of barrel length, slowing the bullet down. But like I said, I think that's highly unlikely.



"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." Sherlock Holmes
 
Posts: 1046 | Registered: February 26, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
To all of you who are serving or have served our country, Thank You
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At 2:06 minutes a printed message came on screen saying: "While shooting I didn't realize the 4" actually had lower velocities on average. Very interesting..." What was meant by that?
You might find this worth reading.

Why Ballisticians Get Grey


....Shredding lead both barrels
 
Posts: 1649 | Registered: March 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Go ahead punk, make my day
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I hear ya on the lack of 135gr Speer GDHBs. I have some speed strips loaded and maybe a box or two left.

I may have to check out this Federal load as well. Thanks for posting the information on it.
 
Posts: 39772 | Registered: July 12, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Jelly, thanks for posting the link to the article. I'd never seen it before. Some of the variations in velocities within the same barrel lengths are probably explained by some of henryarnaud's hypotheses.

We still haven't gotten out to the backyard range to shoot the new Federal loads and when we do we'll learn whether POA and POI are close to the same as rock185 reported. We'll be using S&W model 442 and model 38.

Thanks to all for your contributions.
 
Posts: 558 | Location: Ohio & UP of Michigan | Registered: April 18, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
quarter MOA visionary
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I use HST in almost all my other pistols but I use PDX1's in my 38 and 357 magnum.
Don't know exactly how they compare but would be interested in finding out.
 
Posts: 15741 | Location: Houston, TX | Registered: June 11, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Like smschulz stated above the pdx1 would be the way to go.

If you can find the ranger bonded versions of the 38s they are good to go, but hard to find.
 
Posts: 177 | Location: Virginia | Registered: October 19, 2016Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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For what it's worth, I noticed that Lucky Gunner has added Federal 38spec 130gr HST+P to it's test results table. Penetration in gelatin from a 2 inch barrel averages 13.0 inches compared to a 13.6 inch average for Speer 135gr Gold Dot+P. Expansion for the HST load averages .73 inches and for the Gold Dot .44 inches. Can"t say what this really means for real world performance but it is, at least, an apple to apple comparison. Link below

https://www.luckygunner.com/la...llistics-test/#38spl
 
Posts: 558 | Location: Ohio & UP of Michigan | Registered: April 18, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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