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186,000 miles per second.
It's the law.




posted
This is a very interesting review. I imagine we'll be hearing more about this new ammunition.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/di...t/g9-bullets-review/
 
Posts: 2381 | Registered: August 19, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I have not yet begun
to procrastinate
posted Hide Post
I like innovation as much as the next guy but...

From the link:
The higher the muzzle velocity, the higher the revolutions per minute, and the better it performs.

What hogwash. The bullet can only revolve as fast as the rifling spins it. (approx 1 turn in 10") Velocity has nothing to do with it.
I'm just going to stick with proven designs until I see some concrete data on new bullets.


--------
After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box.
 
Posts: 3387 | Location: AZ - West side of the valley | Registered: October 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Jager
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There is a difference between revolutions per inch and revolutions per minute.

Distance versus time.
 
Posts: 2358 | Location: Phoenix, Arizona | Registered: October 30, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I have not yet begun
to procrastinate
posted Hide Post
Yes...and like I said it's hogwash.

The statement attributed to the bullet designer is a flawed concept -> RPM means dick.
In theory, the bullet *should* have hit something before a minute in time passes...and when it does, it will be turning only as fast as the rifling made turn.
The designer could have said "It's shiny!" and made more of a point.

Now if he can get a 9mm up to say, 2900fps, then he's got my attention.
Until then it's just another unproven whiz-bang pistol bullet.


--------
After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box.
 
Posts: 3387 | Location: AZ - West side of the valley | Registered: October 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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They stated per minute.

They are correct.

Supernatural maths. Wink
 
Posts: 2358 | Location: Phoenix, Arizona | Registered: October 30, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of mikeyspizza
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Just a wee bit over my budget.
 
Posts: 3081 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: August 16, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Smarter than the
average bear
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by KMitch200:
I like innovation as much as the next guy but...

From the link:
The higher the muzzle velocity, the higher the revolutions per minute, and the better it performs.

What hogwash. The bullet can only revolve as fast as the rifling spins it. (approx 1 turn in 10") Velocity has nothing to do with it.
I'm just going to stick with proven designs until I see some concrete data on new bullets.


I don’t know anything about the performance of this bullet, and I’m not endorsing it, but you are completely wrong in your statements. No matter the barrel twist rate, there is a direct relationship between the speed of the bullet and the rpm of the bullet. The faster the bullet travels, the faster it is spinning. They claim this bullet acts like a propeller and damages tissue due to its design as it spins. The statement about higher velocity making it more effective because it spins faster absolutely makes sense.
 
Posts: 2576 | Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana | Registered: June 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I have not yet begun
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by honestlou:
quote:
Originally posted by KMitch200:
I like innovation as much as the next guy but...
From the link:
The higher the muzzle velocity, the higher the revolutions per minute, and the better it performs.
What hogwash. The bullet can only revolve as fast as the rifling spins it. (approx 1 turn in 10") Velocity has nothing to do with it.
I'm just going to stick with proven designs until I see some concrete data on new bullets.


I don’t know anything about the performance of this bullet, and I’m not endorsing it, but you are completely wrong in your statements. No matter the barrel twist rate, there is a direct relationship between the speed of the bullet and the rpm of the bullet. The faster the bullet travels, the faster it is spinning. They claim this bullet acts like a propeller and damages tissue due to its design as it spins. The statement about higher velocity making it more effective because it spins faster absolutely makes sense.

Roll Eyes Roll Eyes As I said before RPM MEANS DICK.
What makes the bullet spin? The 1 turn in 10 inches rifling.
A faster velocity makes it spin "faster" than the *rifling* makes it spin how exactly? Aerodynamics?
Does it automatically jump up to a 1-8, 1-6 or 1-4 twist rate??? No.
It's going to turn 1 revolution in 10 inches no matter what speed you drive it at. It can reach that 10 inches of distance *faster* (if you love time measurements like RPM), but it will still only *turn* ONCE.

I like velocity as much as any gun guy. I would buy the argument if the designer said that velocity made the "blades" more effective because they threw tissue out with more force, that might very well be correct.
But to think that the *time* measurement - RPM - means more rotation IN THE TARGET'S BODY is bogus.
RPM in the abstract will increase with velocity ONLY because the bullet, in theory, will travel farther in one minute. It doesn't "spin faster", it would just cover more distance --> more 10 inch units ( Wink ) <-- allowing the RPMs to add up.
No bullet fired horizontally keeps flying for one minute. RPM MEANS DICK.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: KMitch200,


--------
After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box.
 
Posts: 3387 | Location: AZ - West side of the valley | Registered: October 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Consider two bullets of equal caliber, A and B. Twist rate for each is one complete revolution in 10 inches.

Let’s assume Bullet A’s muzzle velocity (MV) is 1,000 feet per second (fps) and Bullet B’s MV is 1,500 fps and the bullets travel the entire 10 inches at the stated MV.

Let’s ignore friction in the barrel, bullet not fully engaged in the lands/grooves, etc.

1,000 fps = 12,000 inches per second (ips).

1,500 fps = 18,000 ips.

It takes Bullet A 0.00083 seconds to travel 10 inches (10 in/12,000 ips) or one revolution.

It takes Bullet B 0.00055 seconds to travel 10 inches (10 in/18,000 ips) or one revolution.

Converting the revolution of Bullet A and B to revolution per minute (rpm):

Bullet A – 1 revolution per 0.00083 seconds, multiplied by 60 seconds per minute, we get 72,289 rpm.

Bullet B – 1 revolution per 0.00055 seconds, multiplied by 60 seconds per minute, we get 108,011 rpm.

So increasing the velocity of a bullet increases its revolution per minute. It still turns one revolution in 10 inches; just faster.


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Posts: 7337 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: November 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yay math!

 
Posts: 8380 | Registered: January 04, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Jager
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Time versus distance.

I'd typed all that up but used two projectiles at 1000 fps and 2000 fps (to make the maths easier) and then thought...why bother?

The older I get, the more I tend to shake my head and think, "You get on there, Skippy" - and keep moving.
 
Posts: 2358 | Location: Phoenix, Arizona | Registered: October 30, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I have not yet begun
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 229DAK:
It still turns one revolution in 10 inches; just faster.

At this point we're saying the same thing talking past each other.

I stated rather clearly in the post above:
It's going to turn 1 revolution in 10 inches no matter what speed you drive it at. It can reach that 10 inches of distance *faster* (if you love time measurements like RPM), but it will still only *turn* ONCE.

And: RPM in the abstract will increase with velocity ONLY because the bullet, in theory, will travel farther in one minute. It doesn't "spin faster", it would just cover more distance --> more 10 inch units ( Wink ) <-- allowing the RPMs to add up.

I know the math, this isn't a math problem. It's more of a marketing issue with the bullet designer.
RPM means dick.


--------
After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box.
 
Posts: 3387 | Location: AZ - West side of the valley | Registered: October 26, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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From the article:

quote:
The higher the muzzle velocity, the higher the revolutions per minute...


You are fixated on 10 revolutions PER INCH.

That's not what the posit was.

It's not "abstract" at all.

Revolutions per inch is not the same as revolutions per minute, which is what was stated.

Is the bullet turning more revolutions PER MINUTE at a higher velocity?

That is the statement - and that is the question.

The answer is yes.

Now, the inference is that terminal performance is enhanced.

That may be where your argument lies; but the statement is accurate.
 
Posts: 2358 | Location: Phoenix, Arizona | Registered: October 30, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Quiet Man
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Object A makes one revolution in 10 inches. It takes 10 seconds to move that distance.

Object B makes one revolution in 10 inches. It takes 1 second to move that distance.

Both objects travel for one minute.

Object A makes 6 revolutions in that time. 6rpm
Object B makes 60 revolutions in that time. 60rpm.

I suspect that the difference in velocity would be far more important that rotational speed, and that NEITHER serves to make this "new" projectile more effective than tried and true methods.
 
Posts: 1820 | Registered: November 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Mensch
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African or European?


------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Yidn, shreibt un fershreibt"

"The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind."
-Bomber Harris
 
Posts: 15180 | Location: Ivorydale | Registered: January 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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OK, now that the mathematics exercise has exhausted itself. Does anybody have any experience with this ammo. I find it very interesting.
 
Posts: 1861 | Location: Escaped Upstate NY for Texas | Registered: April 08, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Guess not...

I plan to buy some and run some trials. Not sure what trials yet.
 
Posts: 1861 | Location: Escaped Upstate NY for Texas | Registered: April 08, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm not ready to switch but I am interested in following its development and hopefully some real world hunting results I imagine.
 
Posts: 2044 | Location: Pnw | Registered: March 21, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I’ll stick to proven defense ammo. This specialty stuff is not for me.

1. It’s pricy
2. Hard to get
3. Questionable claims
 
Posts: 696 | Location: Gatesville, TX | Registered: January 07, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by KMitch200:
And: RPM in the abstract will increase with velocity ONLY because the bullet, in theory, will travel farther in one minute. It doesn't "spin faster", it would just cover more distance --> more 10 inch units ( Wink ) <-- allowing the RPMs to add up.


RPM means dick.


Actually, now. The rate of rotation, which is revolutions per minute, increases with increased speed. The bullet traverses the same distance, with the same number of revolutions, but over a shorter time durations. This means more revolutions per a given time interval, which is a. higher RPM.

If the bullet rotates 50 times in one second to go distance X, but at a higher speed rotates 50 times to go the same distance but does it in half a second, the rotation per distance unit has not changed, but the RPM has doubled. If the bullet were to be in flight for the same period of time, 1 second, then it would be 100 revolutions. Faster is a higher rate of rotation.

RPM does not mean "dick." Revolution is inherent to accuracy. The rate of revolution necessary for accuracy dependson bullet weight and velocity.

The bullet in question is a gimmick, and there's redneck junk science involved in the article, but a lot of misunderstanding here, too.
 
Posts: 4156 | Registered: September 13, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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