Next order of business.

Get your own place to live.

Seriously.

While everyone is bashing on me, there are many things to take into account...

I replied to the scenario based on the area where I used to work...

it was the hood...period. and if someone called in that someone was loading magazines while seated in the back of his truck we would have rolled deep and responded with rifles...based on historical crimes and events.

Now, other officers work in other areas and with a different section of society....and that is their experience and the historical events they can measure against...

I am not blaming anyone, or faulting anyone because I know what I would have done based on a man with a gun call in the city I worked in and including the area in which it was dispatched to....if it was on the edge of the city and in an area not "hood", there would have been a different response.

sorry if everyone think that I'd roll up on every gun call.

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
That is some absolute bullshit. I’d be flipping my shit.

If I'd been approached like that, I'm afraid I may have needed some new drawers immediately afterward.

As for calls to the chief and all that business, is there any benefit at all to finding a polite way to say (in a letter, presumably) something to the effect of, "Hey, I appreciate the quick response and the work you do, but lighten the heck up"?

Or would that just be adding fuel to an unnecessary fire?

Short of filing a law suit against that particular agency, the op would be wasting his time and energy trying to make any points with that group.

Just for the sake of comparison, I got stopped for speeding a few years back and when the officer asked if I had any "...weapons on me", I told him I had a Glock in my right hand waistband. He asked me if I would agree to hand him the weapon so he could hold onto it during the stop. I politely told him "No sir, I'd prefer not to do that. I have no intention of touching a firearm in your presence. If you'd like me to step out of the vehicle so you can take it out of my holster, I'd be willing to do that if it will make you more comfortable." Long story short, the officer did not take my weapon, I got no ticket, and the he thanked me for my co-operation and behavior. To me, this is how LE should be modeling their interactions with the public.

That is my goal. A little background first. My wife and I were evicted from our apartment last week. We have no money for another apartment. We cannot go to a homeless shelter together because we have no children. My wife needs medical attention so we cannot be separated. We are staying with a friend of a friend for a couple of weeks. Then the clock strikes twelve.

This is not a plea for sympathy, just factual information.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Next order of business.

Get your own place to live.

Seriously.

Ironmike57- I've learned something from your mistake as you have. Best wishes

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Next order of business.

Get your own place to live.

Seriously.

Rhino --

I know Mike. He has been looking for work. He is willing to work. He WANTS to work.

Unfortunately, the industry that he had made a career in, has had a downturn and he lost his income. I know that he has been doing just about anything to generate income.

If there are any of our members in South Florida who can point Mike toward employment, I am sure that he would be grateful. I do not know whether he would be able to relocate.

Getting is own place, as you suggest, is a great idea, but first he has to have an income source.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
What is the right way to approach "a man with a gun" in a vehicle?

Is a gun in a car breaking the law? If not, go find some bad guys.

@Dresden, you say this like it’s no big deal...
“And actually, I pulled a gun on plenty of people without Probable Cause or PC as you called it.”

I have nothing nice to say so I won’t.

quote:

“And actually, I pulled a gun on plenty of people without Probable Cause or PC as you called it.”

He is technically correct; an officer has to have either a situation where he is authorized to use force to compel compliance, or a situation where he has a reasonable fear or death or injury, or is involved in an investigation of a suspicious area or item (reported burglary in process, suspicious car in an alley at night, etc.). It is an objective standard; objectively reasonable to a normal officer, and an objectively reasonable belief that a crime has been, or may be, committed.

For the sake of adding to the dog pile if nothing else:

I am an attorney and I wholly agree with ArtieS (and jljones' comments from the LEO perspective).

Whenever I fly to FL, the first thing I do before I leave the rental garage is unpack my checked handgun and arm myself. I try to be subtle in moving my box of ammo and magazines from my luggage in the trunk to the driver's seat up front, and I manipulate everything below the window line to the extent possible, but I'm not overly secretive about it.

I would be pissed if I were approached the way Ironmike57 was - man w/ a gun call or no. Damn right, I believe he has an actionable complaint.

-Rob

I know it's not much, but wishing the best for you IronMike. Just hearing that helped me quite a bit when I was in a situation similar to yours.

The day in and day out grind of looking for work outside of your chosen profession in a depressed economy is tough, you hear a lot of no and even more so you don't hear anything back from submitted resumes. Keep pushing, something eventually works.

I don’t know what was reported, how it was reported. All I know was what activity was being done. In today’s world with swatting others for all I know it was reported that a gun was being waved around. So I am not going to comment on how it was handled.

quote:

Originally posted by Ironmike57:
Never again will I load magazines in a public place.

Were they military-grade assault magazines? Because those are dangerous, man. The bullets will pop right out and hone-in on the nearest bystander even without a gun.

Seriously, it is good that you live in a Second Amendment state.


.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
What is the right way to approach "a man with a gun" in a vehicle?

Flash bang obviously

LR, thanks for the plug. Meredith and I are done with south Florida. We are strongly considering moving to central Florida.

Artie S has contacted me and he is a breath of fresh air. This forum is fantastic. Thank you, Para.

Matthew03, thank you as well.

FWIW, I have no intention of filing any complaint against MDPD. I have much more important things to do with my time. Thanks for all of the ideas. I would like to get a copy of the incident report if possible.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Next order of business.

Get your own place to live.

Seriously.

Rhino --

I know Mike. He has been looking for work. He is willing to work. He WANTS to work.

Unfortunately, the industry that he had made a career in, has had a downturn and he lost his income. I know that he has been doing just about anything to generate income.

If there are any of our members in South Florida who can point Mike toward employment, I am sure that he would be grateful. I do not know whether he would be able to relocate.

Getting is own place, as you suggest, is a great idea, but first he has to have an income source.

quote:

Originally posted by vthoky:

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
That is some absolute bullshit. I’d be flipping my shit.

If I'd been approached like that, I'm afraid I may have needed some new drawers immediately afterward.

As for calls to the chief and all that business, is there any benefit at all to finding a polite way to say (in a letter, presumably) something to the effect of, "Hey, I appreciate the quick response and the work you do, but lighten the heck up"?

Or would that just be adding fuel to an unnecessary fire?

It could be for nothing, or it could elicit a positive response.

At my agency we have to be able to explain "why" we pull a gun or point it at someone. It has to be on video, and we have to mark the video as having done it. If I was to do what the officers described did, with the information it sounds like they had, I'd expect a day or two off if the citizen complained. A lawsuit, in today's age, would not be a surprise if the person was properly motivated.

We get "man with a gun" calls all the time. The first thing we ask is what they are doing with the gun. It's not illegal to have a gun. It's not illegal to openly carry a gun. Including a rifle.

If there is no indication they are doing something illegal with the gun, like pointing it at people, we are still expected to go observe to see if a contact is necessary. Person walking down the sidewalk, even in a city of a million, with a gun on his hip in a holster? Wave and drive on. Walking around holding it in his hand or pointing it at people? A discussion will ensue.

Another point to that, a person calling 911, especially if they don't leave their contact information or meet with the officer, and saying "I saw a guy loading mags in the back of his truck" does not give an officer the authority to walk up to someone and hold them at gunpoint, unless there is some other significant factor. That is a seizure, and reasonable suspicion of a crime is required to seize someone.

The officers' actions were unacceptable, based on my experience and what is expected of me as an officer, under the circumstances you describe, working in high crime cities with lots of good AND bad guys with guns. The law is the law. It is not illegal to possess a gun. And the search of your vehicle and your wife's purse...I'd be livid.

quote:

Never again will I load magazines in a public place.

If it's not illegal why take that approach? Liberals want you to feel everything is wrong so you won't do it. Have the cops come time and again. You are exercising good judgment by not having your gun out, just the magazines.

quote:

Originally posted by AZSigs:

quote:

Never again will I load magazines in a public place.

If it's not illegal why take that approach? Liberals want you to feel everything is wrong so you won't do it. Have the cops come time and again. You are exercising good judgment by not having your gun out, just the magazines.

I hear you and agree. But, I don't blame him. Wouldn't want to get shot the next time by someone with twitchy fingers.

am thinking about the two point six million dollar settlement that your family could have received , had they used deadly force.

I would have pointed my cell phone at them

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:

2. Don't need a warrant to search a car (go look it up) and I'd say they would be covered under exigent circumstances also

Can we go back to this for a sec? Why wouldn't he think he needed PC? OP was not breaking any laws right? Just because some pussy saw a guy loading magazines made it extenuating circumstances?