Hard to believe but, with the peace-divided of the 90's, only 11 carriers split amongst deployments, maintenance, and work-ups, not to mention a war that's now 17-years, this isn't a surprise. Lots of perishable skills that need to be relearned. With REFORGER getting a hard look at re-starting, looks like this is a prelude to re-starting Northern Wedding.
A U.S. aircraft carrier is operating in the Arctic Circle for the first time since the dissolution of the Soviet Union, as USS Harry S. Truman (CVN-75) and escorts entered the Norwegian Sea today.
The Truman Carrier Strike Group has been operating in the Northern Atlantic Ocean for the last month, working with the Royal Canadian Navy and then stopping in Iceland and the United Kingdom recently ahead of its upcoming participation in the NATO exercise Trident Juncture 2018.
Truman’s excursion north of the Arctic Circle is the first since USS America (CV-66) operated there in September 1991 during NATO exercise North Star, according to a Navy news release.
“We are unbelievably excited to be operating in the Norwegian Sea,” Truman Commanding Officer Capt. Nick Dienna said in the news release. “It has been over three decades since carrier aviation has been tested by this environment, and, despite the arduous weather and sea conditions, these men and women are demonstrating this ship can bring a full-spectrum of capabilities to bear anywhere in the world.”
As part of Trident Juncture, which takes place in and around Norway, the Truman Strike Group will “expand its compliment of capabilities off the coast of Norway, performing air, surface and subsurface operations while being confronted by the trio of freezing temperatures, fierce winds, and unpredictable seas.” The strike group will practice these skills on its own ahead of the formal NATO exercise, according to the news release.
The Iwo Jima Amphibious Ready is also in the area – though not quite to the Arctic Circle – for a Trident Juncture kickoff event in Iceland. The ships and Marines from 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit were supposed to conduct a cold-weather amphibious landing in Iceland as a practice ahead of the main event in Norway, but rough seas slowed the sail to Iceland and dangerous surf conditions canceled the planned landing. The ARG/MEU instead conducted an air raid near the Keflavik International Airport in southwestern Iceland and will depart for Norway in the coming days.
Trident Juncture 2018 continues to grow in size, with now more than 50,000 personnel involved in what has become the largest NATO exercise in decades.
“Trident Juncture represents the best of NATO – a coalition of allies and partners working toward the shared interests of lasting peace and economic prosperity in the European region,” Carrier Strike Group Eight Commander Rear Adm. Gene Black said in the Navy news release. “This exercise is also a fantastic opportunity to learn from our Allies on their home turf.”
“The combined and bilateral operations we have conducted in the region over the last several months embody the U.S.’s commitment to our NATO allies and partners,” Black continued. “Together, our maritime partnership creates a global network of navies capable of uniting against any potential threat.”
Posts: 14653 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000
What kind of survival gear do these pilots have to carry with them to operate in this environment? This environment makes me question the use of a single seat jet like the F35. Might be a good plane but I think in the Naval aviation world I would rather have two engines.
Posts: 7724 | Location: West Jordan, Utah | Registered: June 19, 2007
Aircrew have survival dry suits but depending on water temps, survival is still measured in minutes instead of hours.
The word on the street when they were developing the F-35 (despite it being sad that there would never again be a single engine aircraft on a carrier) was engine monitoring systems were so much better you'd lose fewer F35s than current twin engine jets.
Of course that doesn't take non-maintenance failures into account, like FOD on the catapult, etc, etc. Shit that shouldn't happen but invariably does sometimes.
I'll take a twin engine fighter any day off the carrier.
As a sailor and having made some North patrols I can say that life expectancy is measured in minutes if one falls into the water.
A survival suit with a liner will keep you alive for a few hours at best, and in best conditions.
Once we got north of Nova Scotia we were told that to fall over the side was a death sentence- even if seen falling overboard. This is because it took time to turn the ship around and scramble a crew and small boat to retrieve you....
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Originally posted by RHINOWSO: Aircrew have survival dry suits but depending on water temps, survival is still measured in minutes instead of hours.
The word on the street when they were developing the F-35 (despite it being sad that there would never again be a single engine aircraft on a carrier) was engine monitoring systems were so much better you'd lose fewer F35s than current twin engine jets.
Of course that doesn't take non-maintenance failures into account, like FOD on the catapult, etc, etc. Shit that shouldn't happen but invariably does sometimes.
I'll take a twin engine fighter any day off the carrier.
So how long does it take to get a helicopter up and flying to pick up the aircrew if they should have to punch out after a bad landing on the ship?
Posts: 7724 | Location: West Jordan, Utah | Registered: June 19, 2007
Originally posted by gw3971: So how long does it take to get a helicopter up and flying to pick up the aircrew if they should have to punch out after a bad landing on the ship?
Well if they eject right next to the carrier, 5-10 minutes, give or take.
Outside of that, it's a time distance problem - carrier aircraft can be operating 50 to several hundred miles away from the carrier, so with a helo that does 100-ish knots, 30 minutes to several hours, since the carrier's helos typically stay close to the carrier.
Granted there might be battlegroup ships nearby with their own helos, but all in all its undesirable to eject in conditions like that.
But operating in areas like that is nothing new. Flying over Northern Afghanistan in the dead of winter, with mountains 15-20K tall all around, it simply isn't possible to bring enough gear along to survive very long if you had to eject. We would brief staying with the plane a lot longer when flying up there (especially at night), to try to get near a valley, because you were pretty much dead ejecting up there if you land on a 20K tall snow covered mountain at night, with a flightsuit and jacked. No helos can get to you easily in those conditions either.
Hey, I was on CV-66 for ‘North Star’ in 91. I have the ‘blue nose’ certificate framed in the basement. We came back after two months past Iceland then near Norway, some R&R then a 6 month Med/IO cruise.
While in the Indian Ocean we crossed the equator, a bit more of an event than the Artic Circle. Right now the USS AMERICA sits on the bottom of the Atlantic.
Posts: 6159 | Location: WI | Registered: February 29, 2012
Originally posted by sourdough44: Hey, I was on CV-66 for ‘North Star’ in 91. I have the ‘blue nose’ certificate framed in the basement. We came back after two months past Iceland then near Norway, some R&R then a 6 month Med/IO cruise.
Sounds like lessons are being learned and experience is being gained. Hopefully ship designers are taking note, can only imagine the noise in the well-deck with the LCU's bouncing around.
Two of the three ships in the Iwo Jima Amphibious Ready Group had to return to port in Reykjavik, Iceland, after heavy seas en route to Norway injured a few sailors and caused damage to one ship’s well deck.
According to a Navy news release, “the amphibious dock landing ship USS Gunston Hall (LSD-44) experienced heavy seas during the evening of Monday, October 22, 2018. As a result, the ship’s Landing Craft Utilities (LCU) and well deck experienced damage. The Gunston Hall is in port Reykjavik, Iceland for further assessment.”
Amphibious transport dock USS New York (LPD-21) also returned to port as a precautionary measure, according to the release.
U.S. Naval Forces Europe spokesman Capt. John Perkins told USNI News that the few sailors who were injured during the heavy seas suffered minor injuries, were treated and have returned to duty.
USS Iwo Jima (LHD-7), the largest ship in the group, did not turn back and is continuing on to Norway for the Oct. 25 start of the live portion of NATO exercise Trident Juncture 2018. USNI News was in Iceland to observe the exercise.
....
While aboard Iwo Jima, several officials told USNI News that the Navy and Marine Corps were aware of their inexperience in cold weather conditions and the heavy seas of the North Atlantic and therefore were practicing good risk management – noting this was an exercise and not an actual contingency and they didn’t want anyone getting hurt.
Posts: 14653 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000
Originally posted by RHINOWSO: Aircrew have survival dry suits but depending on water temps, survival is still measured in minutes instead of hours.
The word on the street when they were developing the F-35 (despite it being sad that there would never again be a single engine aircraft on a carrier) was engine monitoring systems were so much better you'd lose fewer F35s than current twin engine jets.
Of course that doesn't take non-maintenance failures into account, like FOD on the catapult, etc, etc. Shit that shouldn't happen but invariably does sometimes.
I'll take a twin engine fighter any day off the carrier.
So how long does it take to get a helicopter up and flying to pick up the aircrew if they should have to punch out after a bad landing on the ship?
This was on the USS Richard E. Byrd in 1979. We had a guy go over the side in the North Atlantic. He was picked up by another ship after being in the water for 17 minutes. Another few minutes and he would've been gone. Once he came back aboard to our ship he told us that he couldn't stop shivering and couldn't get warm for quite some time.
CW
Posts: 3201 | Location: Texas | Registered: June 29, 2003
Originally posted by sourdough44: Hey, I was on CV-66 for ‘North Star’ in 91. I have the ‘blue nose’ certificate framed in the basement. We came back after two months past Iceland then near Norway, some R&R then a 6 month Med/IO cruise.
While in the Indian Ocean we crossed the equator, a bit more of an event than the Artic Circle. Right now the USS AMERICA sits on the bottom of the Atlantic.
I was on AOR6 for that same cruise, got frostbite on my toes standing Signalman of the Watch.
I was just on the Gunston Hall a couple of weeks ago, chewing out the CDO for their pier sentries not letting my contractor's vehicles on the pier per SOPA regs. I hope everyone is OK. Much worse places to be stranded awaiting repairs than Iceland.
MOO means NO! Be the comet!
Posts: 2769 | Location: The Tidewater. VCOA. | Registered: June 24, 2009
