I would say we are at or close to stage 8.

NewtoSig, I would argue that there are many receiving Social Security payments today that never paid a dime in to the system.

7-8 -ish

3.5

We have a ways to go before we're done with the liberty phase. Obviously, each phase has some elements of the others, and there are many messed up things happening these days, but just the same - we're nowhere near stages 8 or so.

quote:

In terms of your paper copy...

The one that I have is an old copy from Mentor Books, New American Library. It's based on the original McLean edition of 1788, with an introduction from Clinton Rossiter.

quote:

Originally posted by 95flhr:
...NewtoSig, I would argue that there are many receiving Social Security payments today that never paid a dime in to the system.

No question, the SS system is as corrupted as anything else the Govt has its finger in, and those illegal aliens and others like them who suck the government tit without paying in, should be killed slowly. I worked for mine, though, and I'm glad they left some for me.

By coincidence, I was Foreman of a Jury Trial that ended yesterday, and nearly all the jurors had trust issues with the procedures employed by the police in their investigation. "Trust But Verify" was the prevailing attitude.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

In terms of your paper copy...

The one that I have is an old copy from Mentor Books, New American Library. It's based on the original McLean edition of 1788, with an introduction from Clinton Rossiter.

This one?
https://www.amazon.com/Federal...rs%2C+mentor+edition

#8, just count how many people derive their income from the Government or from Government benefits. Salaries, pensions, insurance, benefits, assistance.....a good portion of the US is dependent on Government money.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
3.5

We have a ways to go before we're done with the liberty phase. Obviously, each phase has some elements of the others, and there are many messed up things happening these days, but just the same - we're nowhere near stages 8 or so.

If/when we are hit with a debt/unfunded liability tsunami, #8 and #9 could hit quite quickly. I hope you are correct, but think you are wrong.

7-8, give or take

Wow, A lot of you guys are pretty pessimistic.

^^^^^

I'd bet you'd have heard a similar range of responses if you asked the same question 100 years ago. The "Hell in a Handbasket" phenomenon.

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
Wow, A lot of you guys are pretty pessimistic.

No, realistic. All good things must come to an end. Nothing lasts forever.

Scoutmaster, we have the ability to absolutely obliterate our creditors AND to print money. It's a little bit different than being several hundred thousand dollars in debt to a bank and unable to make payments. Imagine if your average idiot who owed capital one $555,000 had the ability to level all of cap ones buildings with the push of a few buttons. Suddenly cap ones leverage is questionable. The comparison becomes even more complicated when you look at nations owning other nations money. Sure you could risk collapsing your economy going that route. But if it's collapsing anyway and total war has stimulated the economy in the past you begin to understand the wreckless mindset that has taken over Washington.

Hitchikers' Guide to the Galaxy, on phases of civilization:

quote:

“The History of every major Galactic Civilization tends to pass through three distinct and recognizable phases, those of Survival, Inquiry and Sophistication, otherwise known as the How, Why, and Where phases. For instance, the first phase is characterized by the question 'How can we eat?' the second by the question 'Why do we eat?' and the third by the question 'Where shall we have lunch?”

Before you laugh, it's as valid as asserting every major civilization in history rose and fell on a strict timeline, caused by the same nine factors in rotating sequence.

Actually, maybe it's more valid.

At best, 6.

Plato lived in a time, and a region of small city states where those in a society were of similar lineage and background. I'm not sure that his nine stages can be applied to a society as complex, and diverse as the United States. I would argue that you could apply all 9 of the stages to various geographical areas and social groups providing an average of 4.5

From my observation we're almost at 6.

I'd have to say 6.

There are still producers and innovators. When those that do choose not to anymore because there is no longer a reward for doing so we'll progress rapidly through the remaining steps.

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
Plato lived in a time, and a region of small city states where those in a society were of similar lineage and background. I'm not sure that his nine stages can be applied to a society as complex, and diverse as the United States. I would argue that you could apply all 9 of the stages to various geographical areas and social groups providing an average of 4.5

For sure.

There are countless parallel instances of this and similar cycles happening all over, and no single cycle truly describes the sum total of these United States much less predicts the future, beyond a conversational and philosophical sense. There is some meaning and value therein, no doubt, but it isn't THE answer, THE path, or anything of the sort.

I would say 7.5