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Where is the USA in the 9 stages of civiliztion?

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September 13, 2017, 10:38 AM
95flhr
Where is the USA in the 9 stages of civiliztion?
I would say we are at or close to stage 8.

NewtoSig, I would argue that there are many receiving Social Security payments today that never paid a dime in to the system.




“Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.”
― Ronald Reagan

Retired old fart
September 13, 2017, 10:53 AM
Crom
7-8 -ish


"Crom is strong! If I die, I have to go before him, and he will ask me, 'What is the riddle of steel?' If I don't know it, he will cast me out of Valhalla and laugh at me."
September 13, 2017, 10:58 AM
46and2
3.5

We have a ways to go before we're done with the liberty phase. Obviously, each phase has some elements of the others, and there are many messed up things happening these days, but just the same - we're nowhere near stages 8 or so.
September 13, 2017, 11:02 AM
chellim1
quote:
In terms of your paper copy...

The one that I have is an old copy from Mentor Books, New American Library. It's based on the original McLean edition of 1788, with an introduction from Clinton Rossiter.



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
September 13, 2017, 12:34 PM
newtoSig765
quote:
Originally posted by 95flhr:
...NewtoSig, I would argue that there are many receiving Social Security payments today that never paid a dime in to the system.

No question, the SS system is as corrupted as anything else the Govt has its finger in, and those illegal aliens and others like them who suck the government tit without paying in, should be killed slowly. I worked for mine, though, and I'm glad they left some for me.

By coincidence, I was Foreman of a Jury Trial that ended yesterday, and nearly all the jurors had trust issues with the procedures employed by the police in their investigation. "Trust But Verify" was the prevailing attitude.


--------------------------
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
-- H L Mencken

I always prefer reality when I can figure out what it is.
-- JALLEN 10/18/18
September 13, 2017, 12:38 PM
newtoSig765
quote:
Originally posted by chellim1:
quote:
In terms of your paper copy...

The one that I have is an old copy from Mentor Books, New American Library. It's based on the original McLean edition of 1788, with an introduction from Clinton Rossiter.

This one?
https://www.amazon.com/Federal...rs%2C+mentor+edition


--------------------------
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
-- H L Mencken

I always prefer reality when I can figure out what it is.
-- JALLEN 10/18/18
September 13, 2017, 12:48 PM
Southflorida-law
#8, just count how many people derive their income from the Government or from Government benefits. Salaries, pensions, insurance, benefits, assistance.....a good portion of the US is dependent on Government money.
September 13, 2017, 12:49 PM
Scoutmaster
quote:
Originally posted by 46and2:
3.5

We have a ways to go before we're done with the liberty phase. Obviously, each phase has some elements of the others, and there are many messed up things happening these days, but just the same - we're nowhere near stages 8 or so.


If/when we are hit with a debt/unfunded liability tsunami, #8 and #9 could hit quite quickly. I hope you are correct, but think you are wrong.




"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it"
- Judge Learned Hand, May 1944
September 13, 2017, 12:58 PM
RHINOWSO
7-8, give or take
September 13, 2017, 01:04 PM
stickman428
Wow, A lot of you guys are pretty pessimistic.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The price of liberty and even of common humanity is eternal vigilance
September 13, 2017, 01:05 PM
MNSIG
^^^^^

I'd bet you'd have heard a similar range of responses if you asked the same question 100 years ago. The "Hell in a Handbasket" phenomenon.
September 13, 2017, 01:05 PM
12131
quote:
Originally posted by stickman428:
Wow, A lot of you guys are pretty pessimistic.

No, realistic. All good things must come to an end. Nothing lasts forever.


Q






September 13, 2017, 01:09 PM
stickman428
Scoutmaster, we have the ability to absolutely obliterate our creditors AND to print money. It's a little bit different than being several hundred thousand dollars in debt to a bank and unable to make payments. Imagine if your average idiot who owed capital one $555,000 had the ability to level all of cap ones buildings with the push of a few buttons. Suddenly cap ones leverage is questionable. The comparison becomes even more complicated when you look at nations owning other nations money. Sure you could risk collapsing your economy going that route. But if it's collapsing anyway and total war has stimulated the economy in the past you begin to understand the wreckless mindset that has taken over Washington.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The price of liberty and even of common humanity is eternal vigilance
September 13, 2017, 01:13 PM
joel9507
Hitchikers' Guide to the Galaxy, on phases of civilization:
quote:
“The History of every major Galactic Civilization tends to pass through three distinct and recognizable phases, those of Survival, Inquiry and Sophistication, otherwise known as the How, Why, and Where phases. For instance, the first phase is characterized by the question 'How can we eat?' the second by the question 'Why do we eat?' and the third by the question 'Where shall we have lunch?”

Before you laugh, it's as valid as asserting every major civilization in history rose and fell on a strict timeline, caused by the same nine factors in rotating sequence.

Actually, maybe it's more valid. Wink
September 13, 2017, 01:13 PM
Andyb
At best, 6.



"Pickin' stones and pullin' teats is a hard way to make a living. But, sure as God's got sandals, it beats fightin' dudes with treasure trails."

"We've been tricked, we've been backstabbed, and we've been quite possibly, bamboozled."
September 13, 2017, 01:41 PM
Rightwire
Plato lived in a time, and a region of small city states where those in a society were of similar lineage and background. I'm not sure that his nine stages can be applied to a society as complex, and diverse as the United States. I would argue that you could apply all 9 of the stages to various geographical areas and social groups providing an average of 4.5




Pronoun: His Royal Highness and benevolent Majesty of all he surveys

343 - Never Forget

Its better to be Pavlov's dog than Schrodinger's cat

There are three types of mistakes; Those you learn from, those you suffer from, and those you don't survive.
September 13, 2017, 01:44 PM
mark123
From my observation we're almost at 6.
September 13, 2017, 01:52 PM
tigereye313
I'd have to say 6.

There are still producers and innovators. When those that do choose not to anymore because there is no longer a reward for doing so we'll progress rapidly through the remaining steps.




September 13, 2017, 01:54 PM
46and2
quote:
Originally posted by Rightwire:
Plato lived in a time, and a region of small city states where those in a society were of similar lineage and background. I'm not sure that his nine stages can be applied to a society as complex, and diverse as the United States. I would argue that you could apply all 9 of the stages to various geographical areas and social groups providing an average of 4.5

For sure.

There are countless parallel instances of this and similar cycles happening all over, and no single cycle truly describes the sum total of these United States much less predicts the future, beyond a conversational and philosophical sense. There is some meaning and value therein, no doubt, but it isn't THE answer, THE path, or anything of the sort.
September 13, 2017, 02:16 PM
Lord Vaalic
I would say 7.5




Don't weep for the stupid, or you will be crying all day