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Gracie Allen is my
personal savior!
posted
You know their ghosts still haunt us. Hill the Pill gets a participation trophy from some Ivy League school, and we post two and a half pages of comments on the subject. Predict that one day they, too, will be ushered off of the national stage, and several will post dire predictions of them rising from the political grave to drink the blood of the unwary.

Can we finally just lay those specters of hippie empowerment to rest, if only in our own minds or at least a gun forum, when the best the New York Times can do for its darlings is hint that you can see they're wearing fig leaves if you squint and look real close?

Dig.

quote:
Hillary And Bill Clinton Go Separate Ways For 2018 Midterm Elections
Alexander Burns and Matt Flegenheimer, New York Times, May 21, 2018

For years they dominated the party, brandishing their powerful financial network and global fame to pick favorites for primary elections and lift Democrats even in deep-red states. They were viewed as a joint entity, with a shared name that was the most powerful brand in Democratic politics: the Clintons. But in the 2018 election campaign, Hillary and Bill Clinton have veered in sharply different directions. Mrs. Clinton appears determined to play at least a limited role in the midterms, bolstering longtime allies and raising money for Democrats in safely liberal areas. Her husband has been all but invisible.

And both have been far less conspicuous than in past election cycles, but for different reasons: Mrs. Clinton faces distrust on the left, where she is seen as an avatar of the Democratic establishment, and raw enmity on the right. Mr. Clinton has been largely sidelined amid new scrutiny of his past misconduct with women. Mrs. Clinton is expected to break her virtual hiatus from the campaign trail this week, when she will endorse Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo of New York in a contested Democratic primary, her spokesman, Nick Merrill, confirmed - a move sure to engage liberal activists seeking Mr. Cuomo's ouster at the hands of Cynthia Nixon, the actress turned progressive insurgent. Mrs. Clinton has also recorded an automated phone call endorsing Stacy Abrams, the former Democratic leader in the Georgia House, who is competing for the party's nomination for governor on Tuesday. It is unclear whether Mr. Clinton will be involved in either race.

Mrs. Clinton's stunning defeat in 2016 delivered a blunt-force coda to the family's run in electoral politics, and many Democrats are wary of seeing either of them re-engage. They worry that the Clinton name reeks of the past and fear that their unpopularity with conservative-leaning and independent voters could harm Democrats in close races. And among many younger and more liberal voters, the Clintons' reputation for ideological centrism has little appeal.

President Trump, meanwhile, has continued to level caustic attacks that have made the Clintons radioactive with Republicans. A Gallup poll in December found Mrs. and Mr. Clinton with their lowest favorability in years. So far, the couple have avoided high-profile special elections in Alabama, Georgia and Pennsylvania, and engaged sparingly in the off-year elections for governor in New Jersey and Virginia.

Even in their former political backyard - in Arkansas, where Mr. Clinton was governor - there is scant demand for their help. In Little Rock, Ark., where on Tuesday there is a Democratic primary election for a Republican-held House seat the party covets, none of the four candidates running has reached out to seek the Clintons' support, their campaigns said. "I see the Clintons as a liability," said Paul Spencer, a high school teacher running as a progressive in the Arkansas race. "They simply represent the old mind-set of a Democratic Party that is going to continue to lose elections."

Still, Mrs. Clinton plainly maintains a following in the party and aims to help in corners of the country where she can. She introduced a political group, Onward Together, after the 2016 election, and has directed millions to liberal grass-roots organizations, like Indivisible and Swing Left. And she is in talks about campaigning for some Democratic candidates in the fall, likely in a cluster of House districts where she defeated Mr. Trump. "We have to win back the Congress," Mrs. Clinton said during a seven-minute speech Friday in Washington, at a women's leadership conference organized by the Democratic National Committee.

Her interventions for Mr. Cuomo and Ms. Adams are rare steps for the former secretary of state, who has rebuffed other requests for help and signaled even to close allies that she would not meddle in primary elections. The difference in her approach toward the two races underscores the delicacy of her role: In New York, where Mrs. Clinton is popular and Mr. Cuomo needs help mainly with fellow Democrats, she intends to deliver her endorsement publicly, at a state party convention on Long Island. In Georgia, were Mrs. Clinton's imprimatur could harm Ms. Abrams in a general election, the endorsement will be delivered only through phone messages to Democratic voters - making the appeal imperceptible to everyone else. But Clinton associates say the bulk of her activities will be in the fall.

Former Representative Ellen Tauscher of California, a close ally who is on the board of Onward Together, said she expected Mrs. Clinton to campaign later in the season and cited Senator Dianne Feinstein's re-election campaign in her home state as a likely choice. "People she has supported for a long time, like Dianne Feinstein and others, know she's with them," Ms. Tauscher.

Mrs. Clinton's husband appears far less welcome on the trail, with his unpopularity among Republicans compounded by new skepticism on the about his treatment of women and allegations of sexual assault.(emphasis added - IC) Mr. Clinton is said to remain passionately angry about the 2016 election - more so than his wife - raising concerns that he could go wildly off message in campaign settings, several people who have spoken with Mr. Clinton said. Democrats have been keeping their distance: During the special election for Senate in Alabama in December, Doug Jones, the Democrat who won the race, considered enlisting Mr. Clinton's help before abandoning the idea as too risky. When Mr. Clinton offered to campaign for Ralph Northam, now the governor of Virginia, Mr. Northam's campaign responded cautiously. Rather than headlining a public event, Mr. Clinton was urged to attend a fundraiser already scheduled in the Washington area - a suggestion thtat offended the former president, according to people briefed on the awkward exchange. The Northam and Clinton camps discussed a church visit in October but failed to agree on a date.

Yet Mr. Clinton appears eager to engage where he can, holding an event last fall with Phil Murphy, now the governor of New Jersey. This year, Mike Espy, Mr. Clinton's former agriculture secretary who is running for Senate in Mississippi, told a fellow cabinet alumnus, Rodney Slater, that he was hoping to reach Mr. Clinton. Minutes later, Mr. Espy has told associates, his phone rang: it was the former president, who launched into a monologue advising Mr. Espy on campaign strategy and pledging to deliver fund-raising help.

Angel Urena, a spokesman for Mr. Clinton, said the former president has been focused on nonpolitical projects, including the publication of a thriller next month. Noting that Mr. Clinton left office nearly two decades ago, Mr. Urena called it "remarkable" that questions were being asked about his role in the midterms. "Candidates from across the country have been in touch about him supporting their campaigns," Mr. Urena said. "But we're not past primary season, and he's focused on the work of his foundation and his book."

Mr. Merrill, the spokesman for Mrs. Clinton, said she had been largely focused on her new political group, and promised "there will be more to come. While Republicans are hellbent on focusing on the past, she is focused on the future, Mr. Merrill said.

But Mrs. Clinton has stirred frustration among Democrats who hope she plays a muted role in 2018. Last year, she chose to focus quite a bit on the past, revisiting the particulars of her 2016 defeat in a memoir, to the consternation of other Democrats. And in a series of public speeches, she has offered cutting criticism of American political culture. During a visit to India in March, she seemed to suggest that many women who voted for Mr. Trump did so because of pressure from their husbands. This month, Mrs. Clinton declared in New York that her support for capitalism had hurt her in 2016 - because so many Democrats are now socialists.

At least two Democratic women have nearly begged Mrs. Clinton to stay away from their high-stakes red-state Senate races. After Mrs. Clinton said in March that she won parts of America that are "moving forward," unlike Trump-friendly areas, Senator Claire McCaskill of Missouri rebuked her. "I don't think that's the way you should talk about any voter, especially ones in my state," Ms. McCaskill said. Senator Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota was blunter when asked, on the radio, when Mrs. Clinton might "ride off into the sunset." "Not soon enough," she replied.

Associates of Mrs. Clinton said she is aware of the political pressures that make her unwelcome in red states, and they do not expect her to charge into races where she is undesired. They generally anticipate she will focus on fund-raising. Her bond with Democratic donors was on grand display last month: In late April, Mrs. Clinton convened a gathering in New York for the liberal groups backed by Onward Together, meeting for hours with organizers and donors at an airy conference center overlooking the East River. Mrs. Clinton delivered an unsparing critique there of the Democratic Party's political infrastructure: She said the left had failed to match Republicans' enthusiasm for party-building and lamented what she called the poor state of Democrats' electioneering machinery in 2016, according to several attendees.

"On the Democratic side, she talked about how we want to fall in love with the candidate and Republicans will fall in line," said Cristobal Alex, president of the Latino Victory Project, a group backed by Mrs. Clinton's organization. But Mr. Alex said Mrs. Clinton had not taken aim at the man who defeated her. "I don't remember her uttering the word 'Trump'," he said, "but so many others did and you couldn't escape that context in this meeting."

Some compression for space; original text at http://www.nytimes.com/2018/05...n-bill-midterms.html

So. Bill's prone to rages, has been known to ramble about what is now irrelevant, and is quietly being sidelined to targeted fundraising events and races where the Democrats are very likely to win. As I highlighted above, it also appears that he's not going to get a pass for treating women like Kleenex in the age of Harvey Weinstein. Hill's sorta laying low, sorta not, sorta pissing everyone else off, and also only popular with campaigns where the race is between two Democrats. Not that her rear view mirror couldn't use cleaning off - she may not have done as well in the primary as she might have had she been a socialist, but there was no way in hell being a socialist was going to give her a win in the general election. Nor would inducing the Dems to fall in love with a Dem candidate somehow force the Republicans to "fall in line".

Lost, rambling, nowhere to go...can we stick a fork in them yet?

Or at least not give a damn if Hill picks up a participation trophy at some remarkably liberal college?

Does anyone see anything here that suggests that either or both of them are still a threat in any realistic sense?
 
Posts: 27293 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Don’t think for a second that she isn’t considering a comeback run for 2020. Her party will fall in line because moderate democrats are a joke and the lefter the party goes the more Felonia VonPantsuit is the choice.
 
Posts: 2775 | Location: Boston, Mass | Registered: December 02, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gracie Allen is my
personal savior!
posted Hide Post
quote:
Predict that one day they, too, will be ushered off of the national stage, and several will post dire predictions of them rising from the political grave to drink the blood of the unwary.

She's decided that a major problem with her campaign in '16 was that she was too much of a capitalist and a centrist, and she was roundly rejected in the primary by (of all things) Bernie Sanders voters. I don't think moving the Dems to the left is going to raise her stock in the Dem Party.
 
Posts: 27293 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Get Off My Lawn
Picture of oddball
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quote:
Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
Does anyone see anything here that suggests that either or both of them are still a threat in any realistic sense?


Both Bill and Hillary are finished, kaput, damaged goods in Democrat politics. They will continue to embarrass themselves, completely oblivious to the fact that they are irrelevant to most folks now.



"I’m not going to read Time Magazine, I’m not going to read Newsweek, I’m not going to read any of these magazines; I mean, because they have too much to lose by printing the truth"- Bob Dylan, 1965
 
Posts: 16696 | Location: Texas | Registered: May 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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They own the Democratic Party and they have spawn.


==========================================
Just my 2¢
____________________________

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right ♫♫♫
 
Posts: 7731 | Location: Raleighwood | Registered: June 27, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The two most brutal words a Democrat candidate can say to the Clintons: No thanks.
 
Posts: 2485 | Location: WI | Registered: December 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Speling Champ
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quote:
Don’t think for a second that she isn’t considering a comeback run for 2020.


Does anyone really think that bitch is going to live another three years if even half of what is suspected about her health is true.

On the off chance that she does live, does anyone really think Bernie, Warren and the rest of the Dems are going to just roll over again. No way. Not for her, not anymore. As Oddball said, the Clintons are becoming more irrelevant every day.

Then there's Trump. I sincerely believe he is going to start counter attacking, in a no shit, vengeance is mine, wrath of God biblical sense, in the coming months.

Hitlery may never see a jail cell but she is done. Now and forever.
 
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If Armageddon came cockroaches, junkies and that wretch would survive.
 
Posts: 2775 | Location: Boston, Mass | Registered: December 02, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Gracie Allen is my
personal savior!
posted Hide Post
^^^ Survive, yes - but take office?

quote:
Originally posted by craigcpa:
They own the Democratic Party and they have spawn.

Ah, but Obama (who also wants to be the big man of the DNC) hasn't made the mistakes he has or made the mistakes and suffered the losses she has. I'm not entirely sure (especially after reading the article) that the Clintons actually own more than three or four East Coast pockets of the DNC. At the same time the said spawn, at least so far, is no player.

quote:
...does anyone really think Bernie, Warren and the rest of the Dems are going to just roll over again. No way. Not for her, not anymore.

And therein, IMHO, lies the heart of the story. She demanded money, she demanded power, she demanded sacrifices, she demanded loyalty, and she pretty much got them - and then went out and lost spectacularly in a race that every single Dem had long decided was a lock for the Dem candidate. Dems love illusions, but they won't tolerate much disappointment. They hated her then and when she didn't deliver, that was it.
 
Posts: 27293 | Location: Deep in the heart of the brush country, and closing on that #&*%!?! roadrunner. Really. | Registered: February 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Rule #1: Use enough gun
Picture of Bigboreshooter
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quote:
Originally posted by craigcpa:
They own the Democratic Party and they have spawn.


Not anymore.



When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed. Luke 11:21


"Every nation in every region now has a decision to make.
Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." -- George W. Bush

 
Posts: 14826 | Location: Birmingham, Alabama | Registered: February 25, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
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quote:
Mrs. Clinton's stunning defeat in 2016 delivered a blunt-force coda to the family's run in electoral politics, and many Democrats are wary of seeing either of them re-engage. They worry that the Clinton name reeks of the past and fear that their unpopularity with conservative-leaning and independent voters could harm Democrats in close races. And among many younger and more liberal voters, the Clintons' reputation for ideological centrism has little appeal.

Hillary is toast. She's the only one who doesn't know it.



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 24116 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of John Steed
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quote:
And among many younger and more liberal voters, the Clintons' reputation for ideological centrism has little appeal.
The NYT misses it entirely. That's not why young dems didn't vote for her. They were enthusiastic about Bernie and totally turned off when the party, HRC, and DW-S fixed the primary, steamrolling any chance Bernie had, regardless of how the votes went.

So the young voters on the dem side just didn't vote. In the face of Chelsea's two million dollar wedding, 10 million dollar apartment, and having no-work / high-pay jobs lavished on her, Hillary couldn't understand that it would take more than getting her thirty-something daughter to put on blue jeans and a leather jacket to win over America's youth, many of whom live in Mom's basement, work at McDonalds, and can't even pay the interest on their staggering student loans.



... stirred anti-clockwise.
 
Posts: 2084 | Location: Michigan | Registered: May 24, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I believe in the
principle of
Due Process
Picture of JALLEN
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One’s standing in the party is directly proportional to the degree to which the party members perceive your potential for future power, holding office, raising money, writing checks, etc.

If you hold office now, what is the potential for future office? Are you really rich? Are your friends/sponsors rich? If you are Presidential material in the reasonably near future, you get a lot of attention. Once that potential is dissipated, your phone calls may not be getting returned, except by reporters looking for a story.

The Clintons control a lot of money, and still have friends whose support can be important.




Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson

"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown
 
Posts: 48369 | Location: Texas hill country | Registered: July 04, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
stupid beyond
all belief
Picture of Deqlyn
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Shell be in jail before the end of 2019. You heard it here first.



What man is a man that does not make the world better. -Balian of Ibelin

Only boring people get bored. - Ruth Burke
 
Posts: 8227 | Registered: September 13, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Conservative Behind
Enemy Lines
Picture of synthplayer
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quote:
Originally posted by Deqlyn:
Shell be in jail before the end of 2019. You heard it here first.

Deqlyn, if your prediction pans out, you're getting a karma from me!



I found what you said riveting.
 
Posts: 10705 | Location: SF Bay Area | Registered: June 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
delicately calloused
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I think the Clintons are done. What they have left is influence in decrescendo. They are both damaged. They are both corrupt and everyone knows it. Those moved by a Clinton endorsement were already on board anyway. What we don't remember sometimes is how age related decline is exponential. They are both elderly and rapidly approaching frailty that can't be concealed. There are younger, less compromised challengers out there pressing for public attention. The contrast serves to illustrate fading Clinton value. Soon they will be left to self congratulate and venerate as no one else is interested.



You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier
 
Posts: 29699 | Location: Highland, Ut. | Registered: May 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Troll
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"Both Bill and Hillary are finished, kaput, damaged goods in Democrat politics. They will continue to embarrass themselves, completely oblivious to the fact that they are irrelevant to most folks now."

Ah, except for the unintended comedy they both produce!

Every time I hear or see one or the other, I start laughing even before they speak as I know for certain whatever they spew will be hilarious, in an odd and ugly way....
 
Posts: 261 | Registered: May 02, 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oriental Redneck
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Klintons are done.

Watch for Kamala Harris to rise. They successfully ran their first black President. Now, it will be the first female black President.


Q






 
Posts: 26384 | Location: TEXAS | Registered: September 04, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by OcCurt:
quote:
Don’t think for a second that she isn’t considering a comeback run for 2020.


Does anyone really think that bitch is going to live another three years if even half of what is suspected about her health is true.





Dead pool, Hillary vs. McCain?


____________________
 
Posts: 15894 | Location: Florida | Registered: June 23, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Am The Walrus
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by RichardC:
quote:
Originally posted by OcCurt:
quote:
Don’t think for a second that she isn’t considering a comeback run for 2020.


Does anyone really think that bitch is going to live another three years if even half of what is suspected about her health is true.





Dead pool, Hillary vs. McCain?


If it were both at the same time, the American people win!


_____________

 
Posts: 13111 | Registered: March 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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