quote:

Originally posted by Jus228:

quote:

Originally posted by jcat:
Another victim of Amazon.

Uhhh not at all. Who buys clothes online? No one I've ever met and I know I never would.

I like JCPenney and shop there a lot.

99% of the time I buy my clothing online. The other 1% of the time I am buying the first round in the store once I figure out what fits. I then purchase subsequent items at a significantly lower price online having established what fits.

Vast majority of people I know do this. I've probably saved a minimum of $500 this year alone on Carhartt gear.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
I look at it differently. If a B&M store can get someone in the door, even if the customer is showrooming, but can't make a sale, they're bad retailers.

Your not really a customer if you go into a B&M and intend to buy online.
You're just an asshole.

quote:

Originally posted by SpinZone:

quote:

Originally posted by jcat:
Another victim of Amazon.

I think you have it backwards.

I think that the decline in the quality of the customer expirence at sears, Jc penny's, etc are what allowed amazon to succeed.

I would much rather buy something I can hold in my hand first and I want a helpful, knowledgeable person to assist me. For years now the people working at these stores, if you can find someone, are clueless about the products they carry and inventory has been lacking.

I got tired of being told that they don't have what I want in stock but they can order it for me. Screw you, I know how to use the internet myself and now I just save the initial trip and check amazon.

I have customers who by dog food because they don't want to mess with a 50lb bag.

A few weeks ago a co-worker tried to deliver what I believe was a water heater. About 5 feet tall, clearly marked "Fragile", "This End Up", "Team Lift", and "Do Not Stack". It wouldn't even fit in his truck. Funny thing is it was going to an apartment address.

Some of the things people buy on Amazon are because it's easier on them to have someone else carry it up the steps to their house.

The internet and the boom of on line buyers is something the old line retail giants are having a hard time with. They're going to find it tough to compete on price, though many try. Some stores even promise to match on line prices. One local electronics place does that, and they've matched prices for me several times. They also have an easy return/exchange operation. Close to my house too. And some of their people actually know what they're talking about and are helpful. So if they focus on service (something on line stores can't do well) they'll have something that sets them apart. But that might require them to sacrifice some executive bonuses and plow the funds into employee recruitment and training.

There is a JCP close to me. Their employees are cordial and easy to deal with. But I wouldn't call them knowledgeable. They're helpful, but don't know any more about their products than I can learn by reading a couple signs in the store or a product label.

Ok, went shopping yesterday...Wife was looking for a specific pair of shoes for walking dogs when she and my daughter volunteer at the animal shelter. Went in to Dick's at the mall, found but 1 person working in the shoe section (on a Saturday evening, no less). We had to wait around 15 minutes for the worker as she was swamped with other customers. Anyway, my wife found the exact shoe she was looking for (brand, style, and color) but they only had one pair left and it was in a womens size 10 (display model) but she wears something much smaller than that. How can we buy what they don't have? Oh yeah, they were also $50 more than Zappos.



[/QUOTE]Originally posted by BBMW:
I look at it differently. If a B&M store can get someone in the door, even if the customer is showrooming, but can't make a sale, they're bad retailers. [/QUOTE]


[/QUOTE] Originally posted by smschulz:
Your not really a customer if you go into a B&M and intend to buy online.
You're just an asshole. [/QUOTE]

smschulz,

I am an asshole, but not for the reason you have stated. My intentions are to do what is right for my family financially. I could put us in the poor house by purchasing stuff at a store front vs online. To your point about not being a customer though....I always walk into a store willing to give them first crack at a sale (that's why I am there) but it is up to them to "sell" me on anything. Whether that is having a knowledgeable person helping me, having a price that makes me want to buy an item, or sometimes just being courteous....let's not forget: having what I came for in the first place.

Where I live is about 40 minutes from any major retail shops, none of which are in the county that I live in, as there are no local businesses that would fill my needs with regards to clothing. So, this means that when I go looking for clothes, I will probably be out long enough to have to eat out at least once (which adds to my cost of shopping for clothes). It also means, that as such, I have pretty good reason to purchase while I am out, since I already have an investment in the venture. I am a person of modest means, so spending 50-200% more for an item isn't going to fly unless there is some dire circumstance that would require it.

One final point in all of this nonsense (at least how I see things):

There are a lot of people taking up for a retail chain being taken advantage of by (grazers or Looky Lous) and feel they are losing business because of the internet, but you all fail to see the one glaring fault in your logic....Retail chains killed most mom & pop shops a long time ago. You are taking up for a business style that has created it's own problem by forcing out the competition. Now, our society and economy are creating more competition (you know, that thing called capitalism) and you are pissed off at me for trying to spend my money the best way I can. I would think a true Millennial is more about INSTANT GRATIFICATION, price be damned! They are the ones who spend money they don't have on shit they don't need. I am simply spending what little money I do have on things my family truly needs.

I would like everyone who believes that "once you are in a store, you need to buy something" to try an experiment:

Go into your local Kohls, JCP, Macy's, Dillards, or whatever other department store.

Simply pick a department and wait for some worker bee to acknowledge you, maybe have them tell you about some shoe or a shirt you have been looking for. Once they have done that, do not buy anything. Simply walk off. Then go back after a day or two and repeat. Then repeat it one more time, just so the point gets through to you. After 3 visits, I would say that nobody there could remember what you were in there for to begin with, nor greet you by name.

If you think my experiment is too time consuming, try this: Ask to see the owner (did you get to meet them?)



These experiments are to show you how little a CHAIN RETAILER cares about or knows about you.

A few examples of expenses that a brick & mortar store has that an online-only source does not:

• rent or mortgage, and property taxes associated with being in a prime location vs. a warehouse in a low-cost area
• wages necessary to attract appropriately dressed staff in a prime location vs. warehouse wages in low-cost area
• building maintenance and cleaning far above and beyond that of a warehouse, like carpet cleaning, floor waxing, bathroom maintenance, escalator and elevator maintenance and repair
• greater interior and exterior lighting
• outdoor landscaping
• parking lots and associated maintenance
• security/loss prevention staff
• signage
• cost of meeting handicapped accessibility requirements for customers
• liability insurance
• extra costs associated with a facility open to the public vs. just a warehouse with employees
• merchandise display fixtures
• staff to make the shelves and merchandise look pretty again after customers mess it up
• cashiers and equipment
• a cash handling office and staff, a safe, and contract with armored car company
• paying staff an hour or 2 after closing to clean up and paying staff an hour or 2 before opening to get store ready

^^^^^^. Add loss due to shoplifting\employee theft.

It's interesting that the big box stores basically dropped service and competed on price. When the small ma and pop stores were mostly gone, they competed with each other on price. Service didn't seem to matter to the new stores, only that they can keep prices low.

There are a few exceptions. Bed, Bath, and Beyond receives customers willing to pay above Amazon prices because they have helpful employees and good customer service. Costco competes on price but has great loyalty with their customer service / return policies.

If the big box stores only compete on price, there's not much reason for customers to choose them over Amazon. If they would add some service to increase their value, they could do well. For example, I use a local pet food store that is picky about companies and ingredients. They dropped one pet food last year, explained their research and reasons when I asked, and now I'm using a different pet food. They saved me time in researching the right product, so I'm willing to pay higher prices to buy from them instead of ordering online.

So the question to me is why more big box stores haven't figured this out? Are most customers only interested in shopping based on price and don't care about service? Or have the stores not found the balance between added value / service and price? So far, it seems the latter.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
I look at it differently. If a B&M store can get someone in the door, even if the customer is showrooming, but can't make a sale, they're bad retailers.

Your not really a customer if you go into a B&M and intend to buy online.
You're just an asshole.

Maybe not an intentional jerk, maybe an ignorant jerk.

The problem is people expect to get something of value, and pay nothing for it (such is the root of the Democrat Party).

Let's also not forget the benefit to your community. You may save money, but your community looses.

The local brick and mortar is collecting sales tax. Most nickle and dimers are illegally not filing use tax returns. Your community now has to make due with less or raise taxes in other areas to make up for it.

The local brick and mortar pays local employees. In addition to the taxes collected from those employees, those employees now have money that they spend in the community. Fewer employees, lower tax revenue, less money spent at other local businesses.

The local brick and mortar spends money with other local vendors and service providers. Fewer brick and mortars equals less demand for those goods and services, equal fewer providing them. See the cycle here?

I have a friend in Sears Customer Service who does very good work in Customer Service on the phone for the last 7 years.

She has not had a raise in 7 years. She sees managers rarely last longer than 6 months. Layoffs or terminations happen weekly. The organization in 25% of its size.

Sears is dying a slow death and its death is imminent.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
Let's also not forget the benefit to your community. You may save money, but your community looses.

The local brick and mortar is collecting sales tax. Most nickle and dimers are illegally not filing use tax returns. Your community now has to make due with less or raise taxes in other areas to make up for it.

The local brick and mortar pays local employees. In addition to the taxes collected from those employees, those employees now have money that they spend in the community. Fewer employees, lower tax revenue, less money spent at other local businesses.

The local brick and mortar spends money with other local vendors and service providers. Fewer brick and mortars equals less demand for those goods and services, equal fewer providing them. See the cycle here?

Yes! This is exactly why I support legislation that forces online retailers to collect sales tax. 99% of the people who buy online do not pay the required use tax that they are obligated to pay by law. The online retailers know this. They may tell their customers that they should be paying taxes to their local taxing authority with a wink and a nod, but they know that nobody is doing that. This ultimately results in online retailers adding additional profit at the expense of their customers skirting the law. And if you don't think that online retailers are selling things at a higher margin than they otherwise would if they had to collect taxes because they know their price is still lower, then you're naive at best. That additional profit further erodes their brick and mortar competitors. This whole cycle further hurts those in the customer's own area.

Companies spend millions on advertising to try and get people in the door. These people came in the door, and they're looking to buy what the store's selling. Maybe they have it in their head to buy it someplace else. Nowadays, any retailer is going to know this is a factor. If they're competent, they figure out a way to sell to these people.

If you look at the retailers that are failing, it's because they're management is apathetic and/or incompetent. Look at Sears/Kmart. IIRC, the current ownership bought them as a real estate play, and is just running out the retail business. And JCPenny's has been floundering for a couple of decades now.

Competent retailer know how to deal with the internet, to the point of embracing it.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
I look at it differently. If a B&M store can get someone in the door, even if the customer is showrooming, but can't make a sale, they're bad retailers.

Your not really a customer if you go into a B&M and intend to buy online.
You're just an asshole.

It's not illegal. There are court precidents (Bellas Haas IIRC is one) where the federal courts have ruled that states have no authority to compel out of state retailers to collect sales tax for them or report sales. If it was illegal, it would have been squashed long ago.

Consumers who buy out of state are supposed to report their purchases and pay a "use tax", equivalent to the sales tax. Of course, this rarely happens. So if the state is getting ripped off, it by it's own residents.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

The local brick and mortar is collecting sales tax. Most nickle and dimers are illegally not filing use tax returns.

quote:

Consumers who buy out of state are supposed to report their purchases and pay a "use tax", equivalent to the sales tax. Of course, this rarely happens. So if the state is getting ripped off, it by it's own residents.

That's exactly what I said.

Looking back, that is correct. My first read had you blaming the out of state retailers. I guess I didn't correctly get what you meant by "nickle and dimers" on the first pass.

Sorry.

As an aside, if the states wanted actually collect this money, they could impose a stiff in state delivery tax on the shippers. Since the shipper is operating in state, they couldn't dodge it like the out of state retailers can.

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:

quote:

Consumers who buy out of state are supposed to report their purchases and pay a "use tax", equivalent to the sales tax. Of course, this rarely happens. So if the state is getting ripped off, it by it's own residents.

That's exactly what I said.

quote:

Sorry.

As an aside, if the states wanted actually collect this money, they could impose a stiff in state delivery tax on the shippers. Since the shipper is operating in state, they couldn't dodge it like the out of state retailers can.

No worries. I know there are not a lot of good answers because of how complex our government has made everything.

I was on a service call a while back, and the owner of the business asked me if I was familiar with use tax. I was, and asked her why she asked. Come to find out her business had been audited by the state, and she was busted for it.

It does happen, just not frequently enough.

Didn't feel this needed a new thread, but relevant to this one.

Apparently Sear's drain circling is getting smaller and deeper.

http://nypost.com/2017/03/22/e...-is-almost-complete/

This is how you destroy an American icon

Sears Holdings, once the largest US retailer, is warning investors about its ability to continue as a going concern after years of losses and declining sales.

“Our historical operating results indicate substantial doubt exists related to the company’s ability to continue as a going concern,” Sears said in its annual report for the fiscal year ended Jan. 28.

The company said an inability to generate additional liquidity might limit its access to new merchandise or its ability to procure services. Continued operating losses also could restrict access to new funds under its domestic credit agreement, according to the filing.

The warning comes less than six weeks after the company announced what it called the “next phase of its strategic transformation,” in which it hoped this year to reduce costs by $1 billion and cut its debt and pension obligations by at least $1.5 billion. Sears also is considering selling some of its businesses, such as the Kenmore appliances and DieHard car battery brands.

The Sears catalog was an emblem of the post-World War II consumer boom in the US but the company was unable to adjust to the changing retail landscape and rising competition from Walmart, Target and others.

The retailer’s fate was sealed roughly 10 years ago when owner Eddie Lampert, the hedge fund billionaire, bought the chain, merged it with Kmart and then decided to all but stop investing in the chains’ upkeep and capital spending.

The strategy has been questioned many times but Lampert, who eventually took over as CEO of the chains despite no retail experience, refused to budge from it. In fact, his 15-page manifesto in 2005 stated that conventional measures of retail success, such as same-store sales, were no longer relevant.

Sears would regain its health by closing struggling stores and focusing instead on profitable sales, he wrote.

It is not known if any other retailer followed Lampert’s advice.

The company lost $2.22 billion in the year ended Jan. 28. Since 2013, it has accumulated $7.4 billion in losses and seen revenue fall 44 percent to $22.1 billion. During that time, Sears cut the number of its US stores by nearly a third, reduced holdings in Sears Canada, and spun off the Lands’ End clothing chain.

Its total liabilities stand at $13.19 billion.

In recent years, Sears has placed some of its stores into a real estate investment trust, sold its Craftsman line of tools, and repeatedly raised debt from Lampert’s hedge fund.

Lampert owned nearly 10 percent of the real estate investment trust that paid Sears $2.6 billion in 2015 for stores that it purchased, many of which were then leased back to the retailer.

Sears last turned an annual profit in 2011.

The company said last month it would cut costs by $1 billion and reduce debt and pension obligations by at least $1.5 billion this year.

Sears said Tuesday that actions taken during the year to boost liquidity, including the $900 million sale of the Craftsman tool brand to power tool maker Stanley Black & Decker early this year, could satisfy its capital needs for the current fiscal year.

But the filing also makes clear that additional asset sales could prove problematic.

As part of the Craftsman sale, Sears Holdings reached an agreement with the Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp. That puts a claim on some Sears assets in an effort to protect pensions of retired employees.

The agreement “contains certain limitations on our ability to sell assets, which could impact our ability to complete asset sale transactions or our ability to use proceeds from those sales to fund our operations,” the company said.

Already, the pension board agreement requires Sears to make a $250 million cash payment to its pension plan by March 2020, and the pension board has a 15-year lien on revenue owed to Sears from future sales of Craftsman products.

quote:

cut its debt and pension obligations

Sears and KMart retirees had best get ready.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Who's next, SEARS? Or, are they dead, already?

Today I finally made it into Sears to exchange Craftsman tools. There were less than 12 cars in the west lot; upon leaving, I saw even fewer along the southern entrance.

The guy swapped my ¼" x 6" slotted screwdriver, said he'd order in a ⅜" x 12" slotted (overall length 17", pretty handy LARGE screwdriver), and since they no longer sell Craftsman tape measures, he made a one-time swap, a broken 20' Craftsman for a Stanley 30' in metal case.

The cashier assured me "Sears was not abandoning this location. We're the top-grossing store in the area".

With an empty lot? On the news today as BBMW has posted, the CEO said they may be pulling the plug.