Strambo, what is the goal for your diet?
Many people want to eat "healthy", a term that is completely different from one person to the next.
I can eat a lot of "bad" foods and my cholesterol stays in the very good range. My SIL has blood that resembles gravy and thats with her on statins and eating a lot of rabbit food.

A question for the scientists, how many generations of a particular diet are required for it to become genetically ingrained?

Silly but point making example:
A diet of Twinkies would become preferred by the body for good health in how many generations?

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:

So, because you choose to ride bikes that makes carbs great for everyone? Does that even make them great for you (in the quantities and of the quality you are eating them?)

Man, I never said that. But boy oh boy there is a ton of nonsense being put forth in this thread. I know exactly how much and of what kind of carbs I need for what I do. Like I said, this stuff isn't new to me; I've been doing it a long time.

quote:

Yeah, they have carbs but little else. How about fruit and sweet potatoes instead? Same high carb, way more vitamins.

I eat those too as my needs dictate. But no, they are not the same carbs. I love sweet potatoes and prefer to eat brown rice, but they are not always appropriate for my needs. After a long, intense ride I want simple carbohydrates like white rice. I need that for proper recovery. Obviously not everyone is going to have a workout that requires that. Weight lifting or even cardio sessions in the gym may not need that, but I assure you that I do.

I seem to be on a completely different page here with regards to my nutritional needs compared to everyone else's so it would be silly for me to keep arguing my point. I'll say though that the information provided in the OP is overall very good advice for the majority of people (including myself depending on the time of year). Just don't fall into an absolute mindset I guess is all I'm saying.

quote:

Originally posted by Balze Just don't fall into an absolute mindset I guess is all I'm saying.

100% agree.

quote:

Originally posted by KMitch200:
Strambo, what is the goal for your diet?
Many people want to eat "healthy", a term that is completely different from one person to the next.
I can eat a lot of "bad" foods and my cholesterol stays in the very good range. My SIL has blood that resembles gravy and thats with her on statins and eating a lot of rabbit food.

I’d say the goal for any diet to be “healthy” would be one that provides all the nutrients your body needs while minimizing anything harmful, keeps blood markers like cholesterol, blood sugar normal, minimizes inflammation and maintains a healthy weight.

Cholesterol is just one factor, you can be nutrient deceficient and slowly headed towards problems down the road unrelated to cholesterol.

Regarding your sister, is she obese and on statins, switching to “rabbit food” because of that? If so it will take awhile and low carb diets have been shown superior to statins (and way better than low-fat) in lowering blood cholesterol in study after study.

Anecdotally, I dropped my total chol 65pts by dropping my average daily carbs on a crap “American” diet from about 300g per day to 90g per day and eating way more Whole Foods. My wife had very similar results.

I had my annual physical Friday, the tech taking my blood sample said “you eat really healthy don’t you?” This was based on my super high “good” cholesterol reading. Felt good to hear him say that, breakfast the next morning was eggs fried in pork fat from a pork shoulder I smoked the day prior. Yum!

Healthy food can be pulled pork and a salad or home made slaw. Just skip sugary BBQ sauce (or only have a little, or make it yourself) and skip sugar loaded store bought slaw.

quote:

Originally posted by KMitch200:
Many people want to eat "healthy", a term that is completely different from one person to the next.

That's not strictly accurate. Save allergies or other health issues: What is nutritious for one is nutritious for any other.

quote:

Originally posted by KMitch200:
I can eat a lot of "bad" foods and my cholesterol stays in the very good range.

Doesn't matter how I eat: My cholesterol stays marginally high. Yet every time I've ever had any kind of examination of my cardiovascular system it comes up clean as a whistle.

Two things about cholesterol: 1. It's turning out it looks like it's likely more genetic than anything else. 2. The problem may not be cholesterol, per se, but inflammation. See Inflammation: Is It the New Cholesterol? (I've known about this emerging theory for a couple years.)

quote:

Originally posted by KMitch200:
My SIL has blood that resembles gravy and thats with her on statins and eating a lot of rabbit food.

Is she overweight? Does she exercise? Does she get enough good rest? Is she stressed? Does she eat the right rabbit food? See: What Vegetables Are High in Carbohydrates?. Does she go easy on the high-carb salad dressings? Does she eat much sweets? (Candy, typical American "chocolate," cake, pie, ice cream, etc.) Does she partake of much alcoholic beverages?

There are many factors. Just "eating veggies" won't do it.

While low carb vs. low fat arguments are always fun, the worst combination is high fat and high carb! This is the reason why 68% of American are overweight and/or obese.

Let's look at a real-world example of how a simple choice can have a massive impact on your health.

So, you aren't a health nut and didn't pack measured portions of the perfect foods in tupperware containers labeled by day of the week for lunch. Neither did I!

You are headed out to grab a quick bite to eat and spot a Carl's Jr. You walk up to the counter and tell yourself you can always start eating better tomorrow and get ready to order the 1/3lb "Six Dollar" burger value meal. Let's also take beverage off the table and say you'll get ice tea w/ lemon and no sweetener. As you are about to order, you magically remember the following stats: (or look them up on your phone while waiting...or, they have a nutrition chart on the wall )

Calories: 1210 (1/3lb burger and regular fries)
Fat: 69g
Carbs: 111g (sugars 12g, fiber 8g)
Protein: 52g

Since health is on your mind after reading an excellent thread about it on Sigforum or , you realize that this one meal is going to be 1/2 the total calories you should be consuming for the day and it is just for lunch! You spot the "Low Carb" Six Dollar Burger on the menu. But, maybe the 1/3lb won't be enough if you just get the burger w/o fries, so you order the 1/2 lb low carb (lettuce wrap) burger.

Calories: 630
Fat: 55g
Carbs: 9g (sugars 4g, fiber 1g)
Protein: 39g

Now, I wouldn't say the low carb burger is "health food" per se. It still has the processed cheese, condiments, and whatever quality of ground meat. It also doesn't have a ton of nutrients from a few pieces of lettuce, a slice of tomato, and onion. However, it is hard to argue with those numbers, the difference is staggering.

As a very fit 5'10" male with a little above average muscle mass, I can tell you it is plenty to eat for lunch as well.

"Jimmy John's" has low carb "unwitch" lettuce wrap option on all their sammiches and the stats are similar. #9 Italian drops from over 900 cals and 60+carb grams to 600-something cals and 9g carbs.

Those are my 2 "go-to" fast food options. Chicken breast teriyaki isn't a bad option either in a more classical "healthy" sense. Yeah, rice, but it is low fat (avoiding the high fat and high carb death combo) and if you don't add a lot of sauce not too bad on the sugar side. I add Sriracha and a touch of soy sauce myself instead of more sugary teriyaki. Yet another option, Panda Express, get the Teriyaki chicken and steamed veggies.

These are all decent choices without even delving into ordering salads...

I have another illustration I like to use. It demonstrates just how out-of-touch people are with the food they eat vs. the energy they expend. It tends to surprise people.

When I was still employed I'd burn between 350 and 400 Calories a day walking. When I'm at the top of my game doing HIIT cardio I'll burn around 350+ Calories in a half hour.

A single McDonald's Big Mac meal (Big Mac, small fries, small Coke) contains 910 Calories. More than twice either of those activities. More than both of them together.

And that's just one meal.

So instead I'd get a Southwest Grilled Chicken Salad (350 Calories), squeeze the lime that came with it over it, and have a glass of water. It was very tasty and thoroughly satisfying. Had more protein than the Big Mac maeal, too, and nearly 1/4 the carbs.

Carbs are the EASIEST way to gain weight. One can eat a ton of calories in all carb foods before they get full. Case in point, who here can eat a pint of Haagan Daz (or more) in one sitting if they want to? Cookies, candy, etc. etc. Even carb based food items like pasta can really pack on calories. For example, a 12" sub roll at Subway is over 400 calories. 2 lbs of grilled boneless skinless chicken is also about 400 calories.

I don't avoid carbs, but I usually eat them earlier in the day. For example I'll have a 12" whole wheat sub from subway with turkey or tuna on it (no cheese, no added mayo). I think your body does need carbs, but not as many carbs as a lot of people take in per day. I have also changed the types of carbs I eat, and normally do whole wheat, or oatmeal, etc. I cook pretty much exclusively with olive oil, and it can replace butter in A LOT of dishes and things still taste great.

Everyones body does need Carbs, sugar, and salt to function. But a lot of people get way more of all of those items than what they need.

I've lost 27 lbs in a 4 month period by simply cutting out ice cream, pastries, normal desserts (except 1 night per week). I also cut out cheese, butter, mayo, a lot of red meat, pizza, etc. I will go out to dinner once a week and order what I want to splurge on. I have also turned to leaner meats, I eat B/S chicken breast for dinner 5 nights a week (marinated or BBQ sauce). I only eat red meat (usually a grilled steak) one night a week now......where I used to eat red meat 3-4 times a week, mixed between lunch or dinner. I eat a TON of fresh veggies every dinner and no carbs for dinner. I'll eat 1lb of asparagus, or 1lb of Spinach, or 2 red peppers roasted, or 1lb of grilled zucchini for dinner with chicken breast, fish, or pork tenderloin. I avoid A LOT of processed foods I used to eat......most are bad for you in one way or another....even like raw rice/pasta sides in a bag (like lipton parmesan noodles etc.) are very high in sodium at the very least.

The trick is to consistently make small changes to your normal diet, stick with the foods you normally eat and go to a leaner portion. I always ask myself now, is this worth the calories or fat. If you love to grill wings, switch to chicken breasts or thighs......If you love a rib eye steak, switch to filet mignon or a sirloin. As you eat leaner your tastes also change. I used to eat 2 cheeseburgers from Mcdonalds or BK a lot of times for lunch, now I can't eat them, they just taste like grease and disgusting. Now I'll do a grilled chicken breast sandwich.....once in a blue moon if I want to splurge an Arby's medium size roast beef sandwich. The trick is being consistent and everyone's body needs different nutrients. But, if you can cut out 350 calories a day, well every 10 days that's a pound of body weight. And, it's not that hard. A grilled chicken sandwich is over 350 calories less than a normal size cheeseburger.....

To add to the fast food theme. Breakfast Subway is a good choice. I get 12" multigrain flatbread, egg whites and American cheese.

Lunch: I avoid fries always. But Arby's Medium size roast beef sandwich with no sides is filling if you have to have beef. BK or MCdonalds, the grilled chicken sandwich is pretty good and filling to a degree....mix that with a side salad. I do Pollo Tropical a lot and get 2 chicken caeser wraps (only), or get the B/S chicken platter with balsalmic tomatoes and corn or sometimes yellow rice..... Subway- 12" whole wheat sub with turkey and all the veggies I want and some honey mustard on it, one of the various chicken subs or tuna......no cheese or mayo (Both of these items can easily add 350 calories or more to a 12" sub and tons of fat and cholesterol.)

I agree with Balze. But there are also foods that are NEVER good for you no matter what your diet is.....ice cream, butter, cheeses, ground beef...... But, I also think sometimes you just need to order something sinful. Once a week I go out to dinner with a buddy and that is my night to order whatever I want AND dessert.

Eating "healthy" or making smart choices is a pretty straightforward thing that most people would agree with. The average American doesn't exactly make smart food choices though. If you hit a drive thru you didn't make a great choice. Soda or pop as we call it here, another not great choice. Most people eat way more calories than they think they eat and usually more calories than they need. Eating isn't really there to be enjoyable, food is fuel for your body like gas is fuel for your car but there's nothing wrong with enjoying something full of empty calories now and then.

Eating healthy does change depending on your goals as Balze was posting. If you're bulking you need to eat differently than you would if your trying to cut, and different still when maintaining. Simple carbs after a workout push needed nutrients into your muscles, during a long ride they'll provide some needed quick energy. Fries with your fried chicken, not a great choice.

I've studied nutrition a lot and I'm really good at gaining weight and losing weight. I laugh when people with no underlying medical condition tell me they can't lose weight no matter how hard they try. It's really easy, eat less and move more. If you can only do one then eat less. When you pass 35 your metabolism slows down and it's hard to lose weight. Baloney. I dropped a hundred pounds between 49 and 50 easy peasy, you just have to be a little stubborn.

I'm in the best cardiovascular shape than I've ever been and I consider myself fit. I also have my nutrition tweaked and am a bit of a cardio queen. This winter I'll adjust my nutrition, reduce the cardio a little and hit the weights because I'd like to add a little muscle and strength.
I still enjoy pizza sometimes and snatching Christmas cookies as my wife bakes then is kind of a tradition but I have finally learned when to stop putting my hand to my mouth.

Nobody's answered my earlier question.
That's OK, but I wasn't just posting to be an ass, I'd really like to know if anyone has info.

As for changes I've made in my diet, I'm eating raw veggies and fruit routinely, and am boosting my protein intake whenever possible with chicken, tuna, or supplements.
Instead of two pieces of whole wheat bread for a sammich, I now use one and just make a half. Instead of ketchup or Miracle Whip (shut up, I like it ) I'll use mustard or nothing. I had cut back to just half a teaspoon of sugar in my coffee for a couple weeks, and now am just drinking it black.

Speaking of halves, that is how I've been making most of my improvements in diet/lifestyle. Cutting my consumption of what I believe to be mostly junk in half, then eliminating it altogether if possible.

quote:

Originally posted by apprentice:
Nobody's answered my earlier question.

Quite possibly because nobody here knows.

quote:

Originally posted by apprentice:
A question for the scientists, how many generations of a particular diet are required for it to become genetically ingrained?

Silly but point making example:
A diet of Twinkies would become preferred by the body for good health in how many generations?

OK, I'll take a stab at it, but I'm no scientist.
More generations than current human history. Humanity doesn't seem to have adapted well to the advent of farming/cultivation regarding grains. It is a double edged sword. Mass cultivation of genetically modified cereal grains feeds the world population of 7 billion. However, that these low nutrient grains are displacing other more nutrient dense foods in the diet has resulted in all kinds of food related diseases and disorders from obesity to malnourishment. Not to mention the harmful properties of gluten.

The domestication of livestock for dairy use hasn't gone so well either, I think I read that about 60% of the world's population is still lactose intolerant.

So, after these 10,000 years or so of widespread grains and dairy, humans don't seem to have genetically evolved to handle it very well yet.

Again, I'm not saying some dairy or grains is necessarily bad, but as a staple and widespread...the stats aren't good.

quote:

Originally posted by mark60:
Eating "healthy" or making smart choices is a pretty straightforward thing that most people would agree with. The average American doesn't exactly make smart food choices though. If you hit a drive thru you didn't make a great choice. Soda or pop as we call it here, another not great choice. Most people eat way more calories than they think they eat and usually more calories than they need. Eating isn't really there to be enjoyable, food is fuel for your body like gas is fuel for your car but there's nothing wrong with enjoying something full of empty calories now and then.

Eating healthy does change depending on your goals as Balze was posting. If you're bulking you need to eat differently than you would if your trying to cut, and different still when maintaining. Simple carbs after a workout push needed nutrients into your muscles, during a long ride they'll provide some needed quick energy. Fries with your fried chicken, not a great choice.

I've studied nutrition a lot and I'm really good at gaining weight and losing weight. I laugh when people with no underlying medical condition tell me they can't lose weight no matter how hard they try. It's really easy, eat less and move more. If you can only do one then eat less. When you pass 35 your metabolism slows down and it's hard to lose weight. Baloney. I dropped a hundred pounds between 49 and 50 easy peasy, you just have to be a little stubborn.

I'm in the best cardiovascular shape than I've ever been and I consider myself fit. I also have my nutrition tweaked and am a bit of a cardio queen. This winter I'll adjust my nutrition, reduce the cardio a little and hit the weights because I'd like to add a little muscle and strength.
I still enjoy pizza sometimes and snatching Christmas cookies as my wife bakes then is kind of a tradition but I have finally learned when to stop putting my hand to my mouth.

Good stuff. I lost 150lbs in a year counting calories. Any diet will work if you count calories, low carbs, vegan, high carb etc. do what you like and stick to it. In my case, I did lower carb, but not ketosis. Also, I am no doctor, but I feel if you are a healthy weight and active you will likely have healthy metrics. I was type 2 diabetic, high triglycerides, and high blood pressure. I am now healthy and off all medication. I eat what I want now, but keep my calories at my maintenance level for age weight etc.

Great post overall jimmy123x.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:

Everyones body does need Carbs, sugar, and salt to function. But a lot of people get way more of all of those items than what they need.

I have to parse this part out though, it is not physiologically correct if by "needs" you mean "needs to consume" and the topic is about what to eat.

We only need to consume salt to function. We do not ever need to consume carbs or sugars, not even a single gram. Our bodies will just take a triglyceride (1 glycol molecule and 3 fatty acids), split the glycol off for sugars for the brain and fuel the rest of the body with the fatty acids. I get that as no biochemist, that explanation is probably cringe-worthy, but however described with whatever terms, our wonderfully complex bodies can function only off the fat we stored until it runs out.

The record for fasting is over a year by a morbidly obese 400+lb Scottish man. At 3500 cals per pound of fat, do the math; 200 extra lbs of fat at 3500 cals per pound works out to about 1900 cals per day for a year.

So, no; We don't have to ingest any sugar or carbs. (Not even to run a marathon...though probably not ideal.) That said, it wouldn't be possible to have a healthy diet without some carbs because foods that have other vitamins and nutrients we need also contain some carbs, like veggies.

Long, but fascinating (at least I found it fascinating) video on fasting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9Aw0P7GjHE

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo: Humanity doesn't seem to have adapted well to the advent of farming/cultivation regarding grains. It is a double edged sword. Mass cultivation of genetically modified cereal grains feeds the world population of 7 billion. However, that these low nutrient grains are displacing other more nutrient dense foods in the diet has resulted in all kinds of food related diseases and disorders from obesity to malnourishment. Not to mention the harmful properties of gluten.

Yes, it's a dang shame to have more food than we need and die of heart disease in our 70s when we could have starved, died of infectious diseases, or been killed by wild animals by the time we were 40. But hey, at least they died with clean arteries.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:
Yes, it's a dang shame to have more food than we need and die of heart disease in our 70s when we could have starved, died of infectious diseases, or been killed by wild animals by the time we were 40. But hey, at least they died with clean arteries.

Why die of heart disease in your 70's? How many don't even make it that far? What is their quality of life that last decade and a half? Heck, what is their quality of life now?

The overweight and obese people I see day to day (the majority) seem like they are F-'in miserable...and I feel bad, I want to tell them it doesn't have to be that way.

I'm not going to argue whether grains and big AG are for the greater good of humanity (or not) in a thread about what would be healthy for a person to eat.

quote:

Originally posted by mark60:
Eating isn't really there to be enjoyable...

Yikes! Don't say that around my French in-laws. You might get the guillotine.

quote:

Originally posted by MNSIG:
Yes, it's a dang shame to have more food than we need and die of heart disease in our 70s when we could have starved, died of infectious diseases, or been killed by wild animals by the time we were 40. But hey, at least they died with clean arteries.

Primitive cultures are often lauded for respecting the very old. Of course they respected the old. When most everyone was dead by 30, an old person must have been a real bad ass.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:

The domestication of livestock for dairy use hasn't gone so well either, I think I read that about 60% of the world's population is still lactose intolerant.

So, after these 10,000 years or so of widespread grains and dairy, humans don't seem to have genetically evolved to handle it very well yet.