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goodheart
Picture of sjtill
posted
As a cardiologist who has long been involved in heart disease prevention, as far as I can see e-cigarettes should be encouraged, not discouraged. Perhaps if there were solid evidence that e-cigs are a "gateway drug" for teenagers to smoke real cigarettes, it might change my mind, but I believe the current anti-vaping hysteria is virtue-signaling by leftists who need to control our lives. What say you?


quote:
Vaping, #Science and Public Health

New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio plans to make things easier for cancer by making things more difficult for vapers.

As John Tierney explained in a recent article for the Wall Street Journal that’s bad news for New Yorkers:

Since the electronic cigarette arrived around 2010, the rate of smoking in America has plummeted. Yet progressive do-gooders are now throwing tobacco a lifeline. Last month New York Mayor Bill de Blasio signed new restrictions on e-cigarettes. A limited number of vendors will need licenses to sell them, and vaping will be banned from many apartment common areas. This will only push smokers away from the most promising method for kicking their deadly habit.

De Blasio’s behavior is, however, just another example of a wider problem in public health, one with implications that extend far beyond Gotham. In a much longer article for August’s City Journal, Tierney took a closer look.

Some extracts:

Less than 15 percent of Americans realize that vaping is much less risky than smoking, while nearly half mistakenly think that vaping is as harmful as, or more harmful than, smoking—meaning that millions of smokers have been dissuaded from making a switch that could prolong their lives. The public-health establishment has become a menace to public health.

Tierney sets out the mission creep that has characterized the public health establishment’s definition of its agenda, a mission creep that has generated plenty of jobs for those who have signed up for it and, of course, plenty of opportunities to proclaim one’s own virtue by bossing other people around.

A quote:

“We believe in the freedom of the individual in the matter of cigarette smoking,” the American Cancer Society president told Congress in 1964, explaining his group’s opposition to legislation that banned smoking. “To achieve our goal we rely on persuasion and public and professional education.”

Yes, Virginia, there is a slippery slope.

There’s plenty in the piece to consider, including a welcome de-demonization of nicotine and a discussion of the beneficial effects of Swedes’ fondness for snus (a form of smokeless tobacco treated in such a way that it appears to eliminate or avoid carcinogens).

Swedish men have the highest rate of smokeless tobacco use in Europe—and, not coincidentally, the lowest rates of smoking and smoking-related diseases. It’s estimated that 350,000 lives would be saved annually if the rest of Europe followed Sweden’s example. But instead of encouraging this trend, the European Union has banned snus everywhere except Sweden, preferring the same prohibitionist approach as America.

#EUValues

And then there’s this:

Faced with a much more popular new competitor, pharmaceutical companies have responded by supporting restrictions and taxes on vaping devices (just as they have long lobbied for restrictions on the sale of smokeless tobacco). As Monica Showalter reported in the Observer, the firms have contributed substantially to Democrats leading the anti-vaping efforts in Congress, including Senators Ed Markey, Sherrod Brown, and Richard Blumenthal.

Oh.

And:

The prohibitionists have persuaded localities to extend smoking bans in public and private places to include vaping, even though e-cigarettes emit vapor that causes none of the irritations or the dangers claimed for secondhand smoke. They’ve promoted heavy new taxes on e-cigarettes, a policy that harms public health by reducing the incentive for smokers to switch, but it’s been welcomed by state officials (like New York governor Andrew Cuomo) eager to replace the cigarette-tax revenue they’re losing as smoking declines.

Follow the money.

But out of this mess may come political opportunity

Now that Republicans control the White House and Congress, they have a chance to combine sound science with smart politics on vaping. Grover Norquist, the influential Republican strategist who runs Americans for Tax Reform, has discovered that vapers are much different from smokers, whom he found impossible to mobilize against cigarette taxes. Vapers don’t feel guilty about their habit. They show up at rallies and volunteer in campaigns that have helped block e-cigarette taxes and defeat anti-vaping Democrats in local and state elections. “The Democrats have made an unforced error,” Norquist says. “They’ve poked a hornets’ nest. There are 10 million vapers in America, and that demographic will easily double in the next decade.”

Norquist wants the Republicans to use vaping as a wedge issue against Democrats, particularly among younger voters. Vapers are part of what he calls the Leave Us Alone Coalition, which includes gun owners, users of Uber and Airbnb, homeschoolers, and others with firsthand exposure to Democrats’ big-government policies. Vape shops, like gun shows, have become an informal network for spreading the word. “Vapers look in the mirror and feel virtuous,” Norquist says. “They’ve quit smoking, or at least cut back. They’re doing the right thing for themselves and their families, and now these contemptuous nanny-state jerks want to take away the products that are saving their lives. Believe me, this is a vote-moving issue.”

Wisconsin senator Ron Johnson was expected to lose his reelection bid last November, but he pulled off an upset with the help of vaper-led rallies, volunteer work, and donations…

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner


_________________________
“ What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.”— Lord Melbourne
 
Posts: 18068 | Location: One hop from Paradise | Registered: July 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Thank you
Very little
Picture of HRK
posted Hide Post
That quote needs some punctuation help, ie some paragraphs, whew!
 
Posts: 23448 | Location: Florida | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
No, not like
Bill Clinton
Picture of BigSwede
posted Hide Post
Don't think the gubmint is getting any tax dollars or regulating it, yet. Surprised they haven't.

I used an e-cig set up to quit about six years ago, used it for about a year. It made it very easy to do so.



 
Posts: 5319 | Location: GA | Registered: September 23, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
goodheart
Picture of sjtill
posted Hide Post
quote:
I used an e-cig set up to quit about six years ago, used it for about a year. It made it very easy to do so.


That's the kind of thing I like to hear: an effective aid to quitting smoking, which is far more dangerous (if indeed the e-cig is dangerous at all).

BTW I re-did the quote, I agree was impossible read.


_________________________
“ What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.”— Lord Melbourne
 
Posts: 18068 | Location: One hop from Paradise | Registered: July 27, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Irksome Whirling Dervish
Picture of Flashlightboy
posted Hide Post
In a medical conversation context having to do with asbestos, I had a good chat with a pulomonary oncologist about vaping, the dangers and so on. He himself smokes.

His thoughts from a couple of years ago are that the vaping industry is largely unregulated and the quality and purity of the base liquids and additives isn't always known, if at all. He was concerned with cheaper base chemicals coming from China which isn't known for good quality control on consumable items.

His second concern was the lack of long term studies on vaping but that's only because it hasn't been around long enough to follow and study like tobacco but he also said he couldn't imagine there not being negative effects from propylene glycol that's been heated to turn it into a transport medium.

Propylene glycol is found in many things including antifreeze but I don't think any of the other uses involve heating it up to 500F before inhaling it.
 
Posts: 4077 | Location: "You can't just go to Walmart with a gift card and get a new brother." Janice Serrano | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
W07VH5
Picture of mark123
posted Hide Post
I'm all for it. I don't smoke, never tried it, but my dad and brother both have health issues from smoking that will most likely be fatal.

I am against the blueberry scented vapor. Bleh, smells like vomit.
 
Posts: 45374 | Location: Pennsyltucky | Registered: December 05, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Numerous members of my family are gone from smoking related disease.
Smoking and tobacco use in general is stupidity.
Vaping seems equally stupid. And it also appears pretentious too.
If vaping serves as a means for someone to stop smoking, I guess there is some benefit to it.


End of Earth: 2 Miles
Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles
 
Posts: 16090 | Location: Marquette MI | Registered: July 08, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Whenever I see someone exhaling a big cloud of vapor I get as far away as possible. I have NO IDEA WTF it is they are inhaling. I can however clearly remember when doctors and the media were informing the public that smoking cigarettes was good for you. SO there is that... JMO!
 
Posts: 137 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: February 23, 2015Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Mensch
Picture of kz1000
posted Hide Post
quote:
Bill de Blasio


I stopped reading when I saw this.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Yidn, shreibt un fershreibt"

"The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind."
-Bomber Harris
 
Posts: 16120 | Location: Ivorydale | Registered: January 21, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
It's a positively stupid habit, but I don't want the government restricting anything more than they already do.
 
Posts: 8955 | Location: The Red part of Minnesota | Registered: October 06, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm a cigarette smoker, and yes I know it is clearly bad for your health, but different than vaping. When the cigarette is finished, there is a time period where you don't light another.....a clear start and stop.

Vapors- I see these people toke on their vape virtually almost non stop all day long....it's not like a cigarette where they toke on it over 5 minutes and don't touch it again for an hour. They seem to toke on it every minute, expelling huge clouds of smoke (much more so than cigarettes). Your lungs aren't meant to digest water vapor all day long and whatever chemicals and flavorings are in the vape without regulation and many from China. I don't think they're any safer than cigarettes.

As a quitting mechanism- they're not for 9 out of 10 people. 9 out of 10 people just switch to vaping, vape non stop ingesting copious amounts of nicotine, more so than when they smoked. Then as soon as it breaks or runs out of battery whenever that may be.....a month, 6 months down the road etc. They buy a pack of cigarettes and are now smoking twice as many per day.

Now, I am no doctor.
 
Posts: 21335 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Wait, what?
Picture of gearhounds
posted Hide Post
Helping someone quit inhaling carcinogenic particulates from burning tobacco is good I suppose, but between the sketchy quality control possibilities and continued addiction, I'm generally against it. Also, I never could piss the amount of money away that smokers do.




“Remember to get vaccinated or a vaccinated person might get sick from a virus they got vaccinated against because you’re not vaccinated.” - author unknown
 
Posts: 15576 | Location: Martinsburg WV | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Unmanned Writer
Picture of LS1 GTO
posted Hide Post
Don't forget those who are actually using marijuana as the substance which is being huffed.

Besides, the residual smell just plain reeks.






Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.



"If dogs don't go to Heaven, I want to go where they go" Will Rogers

The definition of the words we used, carry a meaning of their own...



 
Posts: 14038 | Location: It was Lat: 33.xxxx Lon: 44.xxxx now it's CA :( | Registered: March 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Baroque Bloke
Picture of Pipe Smoker
posted Hide Post
Re: smoking and coronary heart disease:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6116905

Publication: Lancet. 1981 Oct 10;2(8250):775-7

Title: Serum cotinine levels in pipe smokers: evidence against nicotine as cause of coronary heart disease

Authors: Wald NJ, Idle M, Boreham J, Bailey A.

Abstract: Serum levels of cotinine (a principal metabolite of nicotine) were studied in men who did not smoke (28), and in men who smoked cigarettes only (150), cigars only (70), and pipes only (56). The mean cotinine level for pipe smokers was 389 ng/ml, significantly higher than the mean level for cigarette and cigar smokers (306 and 121 ng/ml, respectively); no cotinine was detected in the serum from any of the non-smokers. Large prospective studies have shown that pipe smokers have no material excess risk of coronary heart disease but cigarette smokers do, so that our observations indicate that nicotine is unlikely to be the major cause of the excess coronary heart disease mortality in cigarette smokers.

Medical College of St. Bartholomew's Hospital
Dept. of Environmental and Preventative Medicine (England).

http://europepmc.org/abstract/...C1gDwSUkGDWbd48c1t.0

This URL has full text, not just the abstract, but a subscription to ScienceDirect is required.



Serious about crackers
 
Posts: 8952 | Location: San Diego | Registered: July 26, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of sigcrazy7
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quote:
Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
...but he also said he couldn't imagine there not being negative effects from propylene glycol that's been heated to turn it into a transport medium.

Propylene glycol is found in many things including antifreeze but Iu don't think any of the other uses involve heating it up to 500F before inhaling it.


Propylene glycol is used in cosmetics and on some foodstuff, I believe. It has been studied and has been deemed to be non-toxic. Either way, it is not a carcinogen like tobacco smoke, so I see no reason to disincitivise e-cig if it is reducing smoking.

Perhaps the Doc is coming from the idea that all chemicals must be harmful somehow, a common, pervasive, but incorrect, belief.



Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus
 
Posts: 8217 | Location: Utah | Registered: December 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by gloucestermen:
They have I have NO IDEA WTF it is they are inhaling.


____________________________________________________

The butcher with the sharpest knife has the warmest heart.
 
Posts: 13400 | Location: Bottom of Lake Washington | Registered: March 06, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Irksome Whirling Dervish
Picture of Flashlightboy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
quote:
Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
...but he also said he couldn't imagine there not being negative effects from propylene glycol that's been heated to turn it into a transport medium.

Propylene glycol is found in many things including antifreeze but Iu don't think any of the other uses involve heating it up to 500F before inhaling it.


Propylene glycol is used in cosmetics and on some foodstuff, I believe. It has been studied and has been deemed to be non-toxic. Either way, it is not a carcinogen like tobacco smoke, so I see no reason to disincitivise e-cig if it is reducing smoking.

Perhaps the Doc is coming from the idea that all chemicals must be harmful somehow, a common, pervasive, but incorrect, belief.


His point acknowledged that the chemical has many uses that are safe and non-toxic but instead opined that there are no long term studies where the chemical is vaporized and breathed in the vaping environment.

If you have some studies showing long term heated vapor exposure into the lungs I'm sure he'd be interested.
 
Posts: 4077 | Location: "You can't just go to Walmart with a gift card and get a new brother." Janice Serrano | Registered: May 03, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lead slingin'
Parrot Head
Picture of Modern Day Savage
posted Hide Post
A timely topic as I was just having a conversation with a coworker who vapes. He has been doing it since earlier this year and has tapered the nicotine level down, but I don't think he has any intention of completely eliminating his nicotine intake. He has completely quit smoking however and says he has no desire to smoke, even when around other smokers, and actually says the smell of tobacco smoke actually makes him nauseous now.

I had gathered a little of this, but apparently vaping has become a bit of a fad and those who do it do it for different reasons. While many do it to quit smoking, apparently some do it to produce as big a cloud of vapor as possible, while others, such as my co-worker, apparently are "chasing the taste" and constantly trying different flavors.

Apparently the E cigs can be bought ready to vape, or you can buy kits, and several of the serious vapers are customizing their builds, some to increase/decrease the nicotine intake, some more cloud, and some more flavor.

I have no interest in vaping and think it looks silly, and I don't much care for the smell of it or being enveloped in a cloud of vapor...but, if it helps someone quit smoking as it has apparently done for my co-worker, then I'm ok with someone else doing it.
 
Posts: 7324 | Location: the Centennial state | Registered: August 21, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of sigcrazy7
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
quote:
Originally posted by sigcrazy7:
quote:
Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
...but he also said he couldn't imagine there not being negative effects from propylene glycol that's been heated to turn it into a transport medium.

Propylene glycol is found in many things including antifreeze but Iu don't think any of the other uses involve heating it up to 500F before inhaling it.


Propylene glycol is used in cosmetics and on some foodstuff, I believe. It has been studied and has been deemed to be non-toxic. Either way, it is not a carcinogen like tobacco smoke, so I see no reason to disincitivise e-cig if it is reducing smoking.

Perhaps the Doc is coming from the idea that all chemicals must be harmful somehow, a common, pervasive, but incorrect, belief.


His point acknowledged that the chemical has many uses that are safe and non-toxic but instead opined that there are no long term studies where the chemical is vaporized and breathed in the vaping environment.

If you have some studies showing long term heated vapor exposure into the lungs I'm sure he'd be interested.


No, can't say I have any studies off hand. I know the CDC issued a big report on it, but I don't know if they specifically looked at heated and injested PG through inhalation.

I know I've breathed plenty of the stuff from smoke machines at parties. If being heated and vaporized was causing ill effects, you'd think people in the theater business would be showing the effects. Also, it seems like being infused with PG in an IV would be more detrimental than inhalation, since PG is used in many IV drugs. Is there some reason that the Doc feels that heating the propylene glycol changes it into a more toxic or carcinogenic substance? I've never seen any research suggesting that. Not disputing it, just saying I don't know.



Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus
 
Posts: 8217 | Location: Utah | Registered: December 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
If it helps you quit smoking then great but to act like inhaling any chemical other than oxygen isn't good for your health is kidding yourself.

Vaping is fairly new so the dangers aren't fully understood yet.

There's already talk of popcorn lung and many other future problems. It's just a matter of time before the dangers will come to light.
 
Posts: 3920 | Registered: January 25, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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