|quarter MOA visionary|
Big Sharkbite fan here.
If I had to do a major project with a LOT of work or new construction I'd say go for PEX.
My buddy is remodeling his house with a bunch of work and bought the tool and PEX (A) is awesome.
I used Sharkbite in a couple of bathroom remodels.
Both great products.
|Raised Hands Surround Us|
Three Nails To Protect Us
Plumbing a brand new house certainly not at about at $5+ per shark bite that would get costly. But the again some new houses have close to zero copper pipe and all PEX. But PEX is way cheaper than copper so the cost of the shark bites equals out.
And the repair or a few additions certainly would go with the Shark Bites.
I just replumed our cabin with PEX replacing the old PVC nightmare.
Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.
My only question is what is the lifespan of a sharkbite o-ring??
"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers
Even if money was no object, around here, you simply don't want copper water lines.
If your drinking water has a sulfur content, you want to stay away from anything copper.
The presses we have are $1400-$1700 IIRC. And the fittings ARE expensive compared to regular sweat, especially the larger sizes. As I said in another thread, plumbers like them because it's fast and it doesn't cost them any extra, it costs you the customer extra. When you get into larger diameter stuff the price really goes up.
We installed some 4" valves last summer and I was horrified at the price (and that we paid it). Like $400 vs $90 for a sweat or threaded.
Personally I don't trust them. They say the o-rings will last 50 years. Bullshit. The chlorine is going to eat them up just like everything else.
Most of the solder joints in my house are over 50 years old, I can't imagine what will happen when those ProPress fittings all start failing.
The only up side to me is you can use them even if you can't fully shut off the water. Down side, beside price and possible life span is you need room for the tool itself when doing the work.
Sliced bread, the greatest thing since the 1911.
Never had a problem, yet... they're guaranteed for 25 yrs.
I used Sharkbite fittings when I moved my hot water heater. They are NOT behind a covered wall. They will always be easy to get to. I don't know that I would trust them long term behind drywall. I could be wrong, but I would prefer a plumber to do the copper sweating for me when the joints are going to be covered by a wall. Oh, I do really suck at plumbing.
While copper is very good, it is not “forever” in all cases. I have slightly alkaline water and the word is that it will, in the not too distant future, develop pin holes and start leaking. Granted, it has lasted 29 years, but I don’t relish replumbing my whole house. I’ll use PEX when I do.
|This Space for Rent|
Well, we recently developed a 270 unit, 16 story apartment building and the plumber used the ProPress compression system. Just after the building was completed and before we started moving in tenants 1” branch line separated from the 2” Main sometime over a weekend.
The end result was over 100 units flooded which equated to about $3.5 million in damaged and a million or so in lost rent while the repair work was completed.
Yeah, we are not real fans of the ProPress system. That being said, it’s more common than not and problems like what we experienced are rare.
It could have happened with a soldered joint as well. Its more the installer that the product.
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We know they work well for the short term but a 25 year warranty is not very reassuring. What does the guarantee cover if it leaks in 20 years, they give you a new fitting? You put a new 20 year roof on, after 18, 20, 22 years you're expecting to have it replaced right? If those 0-ring fittings in the walls start seeping in 20-30 years it would be very costly to remedy. I recall when polybutylene plumbing was thought to be so great.
Pex I think I'd trust more.
No car is as much fun to drive, as any motorcycle is to ride.
My home is over 25 years old and I couldn't imagine having to gut the place to R&R failed fittings. The Sodium hypochlorite that is often used to treat city water is an oxidizer. It will deteriorate those orings eventually.
If you have ever removed a hose whip from a toilet or sink in an older home, you have likely seen the black smutt on the ends of the hose. How about the valves? If you were to take an older one apart... You will get black decomposed oring all over your hands. At least in my experience.
I'll stick to my shopvac and paper towels to dry the copper for a proper sweat on new connections.
|Just for the|
hell of it
Not a plumber but do plumbing work now and then. Used to solder everything. Now it depends. A bunch of fittings in somewhat easy to get to areas yes we will still solder.
One fitting, hard to get to things, something where putting a flame will require shielding to prevent fire or where getting that stubborn drip to stop so you can solder and we are using Sharkbite.
Major remodels with a lot of new plumbing and we are not even looking at copper unless it's required. Other systems are much more cost-effective in both supplies and labor.
Because in the end, you won’t remember the time you spent working in the office or mowing your lawn. Climb that goddamn mountain. Jack Kerouac
I do a little repair like that on occasion and I really like fire.... but I did use a shark bite on a recent repair and found I liked it.. much easier... I did mess up with the first connection and tried to cut the plastic line with a conduit cutter like you use on copper... this compressed the inside of the plastic line so that it would not fit in the shark bite... just cut plastic with a knife and it will work.
|Middle children |
I had a water heater replaced 2 years ago, two of the four sharkbite fittings are already leaking. Is the sharkbite warranty going to pay for a plumber to come out and replace these?
A 25 year warranty is not good enough. My house is already 23 years old and not a single original soldered joint is leaking. I plan to live here for another 20 years and can’t imagine having to gut the interior to start replacing leaking fittings. My first house was 50 years old when I bought it and it did not have leaking soldered joints. You would be crazy to use these sharkbite fitting in all of the plumbing that is hidden in the walls.
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is that moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle - victorious.
Hvac guys are now using in press fitting for refrigerant lines on commercial jobs, in certain applications.
Especially handy when pulling a burn permit is required. We have a VRF job with 80 indoor units going in right now with press fittings.
Been at it for nearly 49 years, still do a lot of soldering. I do use Aquapex quite extensively too, just depends on the job. Occasional Sharkbites, as they can cut repair time drastically where drainage of water to the point soldering can take place.
I don't have the ProPress system, and at my age, don't plan on investing in it. I have seen complete boiler setups done with it, and it makes me cringe. I just don't believe those O rings will hold up to those kind of temps long term, time will tell.
"Once abolish the God, and the Government becomes the God." --- G.K. Chesterton
Man, would have loved to be on that mitigation job. Who did the work?
Familiar with Weil Mclain?
Their boiler sections are put together with O-rings.
Yea 25 years is not enough, 50 years even. I live in a 50 year old house and my pipes are fine (knock on wood). Although I have had to replace the rubber washers on fixtures often!
|fugitive from reality|
So is the space shuttle and we all know what happened with that.
My point is all of this non soldered stuff looks like it's a good time and money saver, but I am wondering if we're going to see a rash of plumbing failures as these instalations age. I know plenty of people with 50+ year old houses that were plumed with copper, are there any out there witb the plastic stuff?
'I'm pretty fly for a white guy'.
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