quote:

Originally posted by terma-nator:

quote:

Originally posted by Gear.Up:
Fighting Chance

Someone else here recommended that and I used it for my last purchase. The information is great and you get a somewhat localized report for your region.

After using this, the "winning" dealer asked me if I was a car salesman. I told him no, but he didn't believe me. He looked like most buyers look like after 4 hours of negotiating. I felt sooooo good!

I read a bit on their website...is the main idea to get multiple dealerships in a bidding war?

Shoot me an email with what you are looking for, do you have a VIN? I'll get you what you need

Im surprised no one mentioned truecar. I believe you can still get the invoice there... Edmunds used to but removed it.

I just bought a Chevy Silverado Z71 4x4. It's msrp was $49k, I paid $35k. That's a pretty good discount, even when considering that a new body style is coming in a few months and there are extra incentives to move the 2018s. I shopped every dealer within 50 miles of DFW and most were very close in price. You just have to watch out for dealer add ons which they won't disclose until you're there or you ask for an itemized invoice before going to the dealer. I found out that many of the dealerships are owned by another dealership, so they don't compete with one another.

Not sure what all the fuss is about. This is a simple process:

1. Determine what vehicle, color and options you want

2. Email every single dealer within a reasonable distance that has that vehicle in stock for their “Best OTD price on that vehicle” (use the VIN)

3. Buy it from the dealer with the lowest offer


Put it this way - are you trying to get a vehicle for the cheapest price, or are you trying to get the invoice #?

I’ve bought multiple new vehicles in the past 4 years, always with fantastic deals using this method.

quote:

Originally posted by chongosuerte:
I read a bit on their website...is the main idea to get multiple dealerships in a bidding war?

He offers suggestions on how to get the best deal. Having dealers compete is one recommendation. Obviously that's not going to work with vehicles that have high demand.

I'll also say, the car invoice bears no relation to what the dealer pays or the cost of the vehicle.

When I purchase new cars I email for a quote. I always specify I want an out the door price. As far as I’m concerned they can add all the fees they want it is the out the door price I’m comparing and will pay.

Luckily, car dealers are able to be happy to sell you that car you want on nearly any terms you think you want, all cash, trade in, dealer financing, bank financing, less than invoice, below dealer cost, whatever you want.

It brings to mind the entry for “insurance” in The Devil’s Dictionary

INSURANCE, n. An ingenious modern game of chance in which the player is permitted to enjoy the comfortable conviction that he is beating the man who keeps the table.

With all these buyers beating up the dealers like this, how is it that two NFL teams were owned by car dealers in San Antonio?

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
Luckily, car dealers are able to be happy to sell you that car you want on nearly any terms you think you want, all cash, trade in, dealer financing, bank financing, less than invoice, below dealer cost, whatever you want.

It brings to mind the entry for “insurance” in The Devil’s Dictionary

INSURANCE, n. An ingenious modern game of chance in which the player is permitted to enjoy the comfortable conviction that he is beating the man who keeps the table.

With all these buyers beating up the dealers like this, how is it that two NFL teams were owned by car dealers in San Antonio?

Because the larger dealers make more money off parts, service, used car sales and car rentals than they do off new car sales.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
Luckily, car dealers are able to be happy to sell you that car you want on nearly any terms you think you want, all cash, trade in, dealer financing, bank financing, less than invoice, below dealer cost, whatever you want.

It brings to mind the entry for “insurance” in The Devil’s Dictionary

INSURANCE, n. An ingenious modern game of chance in which the player is permitted to enjoy the comfortable conviction that he is beating the man who keeps the table.

With all these buyers beating up the dealers like this, how is it that two NFL teams were owned by car dealers in San Antonio?

Because the larger dealers make more money off parts, service, used car sales and car rentals than they do off new car sales.

I’m sure that is true, but I also supect that dealer statements are not entirely candid.

Years ago, we heard how if you were a shrewd forceful buyer, you could buy a car at $100 over invoice. Some suspected this might not entirely truthful, so they started showing the buyer the invoice. Then we would hear about selling below invoice. This was true, they had an invoice for the car, but that wasn’t what the dealer paid.

Nobody believes invoice anymore so a new scam is necessary. There were ads about getting the recent selling price of the car you want, to be sure you were paying a fair price. There is no place where selling prices are publicly listed so you can compare car by car, so this almost certainly is an industry scam.

Emotion, deflection, deception!

Rule #1 in buying a car.

Don't fall in love with a particular car, i.e., a specific make and model.

Rule #2

Don't kid yourself that doing a transaction once every few years or once per decade puts you on equal negotiating footing with guys who do it dozens of times per week or month.

Rule #3

Find out what's super popular and buy something else

Rule #4

Go in the last few days of the month, spend a lot of time with the salesman, two hour minimum. He is now motivated to justify his time.

Rule #5

Always be ready to walk away, see Rule # 1

Rule #6 (and these are in priority order), know your budget limits, know what incentives are available, and have a general idea what a FAIR price is. Don't let that last $300 on a $35,000 purchase mean too much in terms of happiness.


Straight outta Detroit

What's to understand about buying a car from a dealer is____ that word "dealer".
In our country the first places that sold cars was the livery stable. So, "dealing" has remained the same. You had to be careful or they'd sell you an old nag.
I met a car salesman from New Zealand one day. He said in NZ or Australia the price of the new car was not negotiable. You negotiate what they'll give you for your old car.
The federal mandated "sticker" on the window was intended to do away with the need to "deal" on the cost of a new car.
But, having come from the historical horse trader days___ that didn't work out as intended either.
Yes, having to "deal" when buying a new car.....
little different.

quote:

Originally posted by Redford1970:
Rule #1 in buying a car.

Don't fall in love with a particular car, i.e., a specific make and model.

Rule #2

Don't kid yourself that doing a transaction once every few years or once per decade puts you on equal negotiating footing with guys who do it dozens of times per week or month.

Rule #3

Find out what's super popular and buy something else

Rule #4

Go in the last few days of the month, spend a lot of time with the salesman, two hour minimum. He is now motivated to justify his time.

Rule #5

Always be ready to walk away, see Rule # 1

Rule #6 (and these are in priority order), know your budget limits, know what incentives are available, and have a general idea what a FAIR price is. Don't let that last $300 on a $35,000 purchase mean too much in terms of happiness.


Straight outta Detroit

Redford, not meaning to single you out but a few of these are useless, or myths (#4 for example).


I posted before, but it’s the 21st century and a painless process (well, less painful).

What is the goal? To spend the least amount possible on the vehicle you want. That’s it.

Here is where people get sidetracked... they care about feeling good about a deal, or minimizing the dealer’s profit on a car, or “winning” against the salesman, or a host of other things that are not the goal.

It’s a free country, and a free market. With a few clicks, you can contact a dozen dealers and have out-the-door prices for cars they have on a lot. Try it! If a dealer doesn’t want to give a price, drop them from consideration. Once you have all the prices from the dealers, pick the cheapest one or two and go get your car.

I’ve literally done this three times in the last 3 years, the most time I spent in any dealership was 50 mins, and I received good prices (I know they made money on me... they wouldn’t have sold it otherwise!) relative to what others paid for the same vehicles (brand new VW Golf, $16,200 OTD)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: reloader-1,

I can actually confirm the method reloader-1 is describing. I've bought my last several cars using this method...fantastic price and I'm in and out of the dealership in less than an hour.

I used to work for a super regional bank for a number of years and built relationships with many of the local Central Florida auto dealers. When 'good' friends or family want to buy a new car, they usually come see me, spec out what they want in front of my laptop, and leave it to me to get them a price. I shop a few of the dealerships I've dealt with in the past and after going back and forth a couple times, have the best deal emailed to me in the form of a dealer buy sheet. In every instance to date, I have far and away beaten the pricing others have gotten on medium and large SUV's, and the best part according to my friends, they don't have to do anything other than take the buy sheet to the dealership, meet with the individual I dealt with, and sign the purchase paperwork. No BS negotiating tactics, no trying to find the car they want, and no need to spend hours educating themselves on regional/national incentives, rebates, invoice pricing, etc.

I've often thought about turning this service into a side business. Would you pay someone say $499 to facilitate a deal like this for you knowing you're saving ~$1,500 - $2,000 and you get to completely skip the part of the process most people loathe?

And for those advocating for TrueCar and the like, just remember one thing. Although TrueCar gives you a reasonable price for the car you're looking for, it doesn't mean the dealer will give it to you for that amount unless you have some decent negotiation skills and are disciplined in your approach.

There’s a few services that do just that, bigdeal - one interesting one is a gentleman named Tom McParland, he writes for a blog and has his own site (Automatch Consulting). I think he charges a flat fee of $400 or $500 as well.

And I can't think of a single reason to pay for that info. I'll state again what you need to do.
Configure it, get bids on it, buy it.
It's not hard. If there is a hard part its resisting the bait and switch. But I guarantee if you get bids from a relatively decent sized group of dealers you will have a complete understanding of what the vehicle you want is available for. IT MATTERS NOT A HOOT what the invoice is. Cars/trucks in short supply will sell for more than everyday stuff. Your goal is to buy the thing for the best price, nothing else.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
And I can't think of a single reason to pay for that info. I'll state again what you need to do.
Configure it, get bids on it, buy it.
It's not hard. If there is a hard part its resisting the bait and switch. But I guarantee if you get bids from a relatively decent sized group of dealers you will have a complete understanding of what the vehicle you want is available for. IT MATTERS NOT A HOOT what the invoice is. Cars/trucks in short supply will sell for more than everyday stuff. Your goal is to buy the thing for the best price, nothing else.

And from my experience (which spans years buying cars), you give me your best price and I'll beat it by several hundred dollars (usually at a minimum). Case in point, a friend got three offers on a new 2018 Chevy Suburban, and brought them to me. I contacted one of the GM dealers I've negotiated several deals with in the past, and the deal I got her was almost $3k less than her best offer.

Even the most analytical, intelligent folks I know just don't play this game well. And it should absolutely be viewed as a game. Then there's the added issue that some folks either don't have the time to commit to the process, or don't want to commit the time to the process given its often viewed as very unpleasant.

My argument to friends has always been the same. You don't buy a home without a realtor acting on your behalf, why attempt the second largest purchase most people make without a specialist acting on your behalf.

Ok. But I would be totally lost on this. I wouldn't have a clue understanding why you could such a better price. Not one. It would mean that your friend was incompetent at getting real bids. Now me personally I wouldn't get just 3 bids. But I've bought hundreds of cars, and there is no secret. Now I fully understand that some people don't like the game. I happen to, so I don't need help. Some might and so have at it, its great if there is help for those and better pricing. I might add that your real estate example isn't actually true. In most real estate transactions the realtor is a seller agent. Less than 10% of people get a buyers agent. But of the trucks I've bought in the last year (3, all ordered) the net difference in price between dealers with the best bids is exactly $50. I really don't think there is $3K left on the table in a well run bid. There isn't.

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
Ok. But I would be totally lost on this. I wouldn't have a clue understanding why you could such a better price. Not one. It would mean that your friend was incompetent at getting real bids. Now me personally I wouldn't get just 3 bids. But I've bought hundreds of cars, and there is no secret. Now I fully understand that some people don't like the game. I happen to, so I don't need help. Some might and so have at it, its great if there is help for those and better pricing. I might add that your real estate example isn't actually true. In most real estate transactions the realtor is a seller agent. Less than 10% of people get a buyers agent. But of the trucks I've bought in the last year (3, all ordered) the net difference in price between dealers with the best bids is exactly $50. I really don't think there is $3K left on the table in a well run bid. There isn't.

My desire is to get their bid, and then get even lower.

When I bought my Jeep a few months ago, that's exactly what I did.

I'm not going to take anyone's first price as my last price. That's my starting point. The guy looked at me and said he didn't know where I was getting my numbers when I was negotiating. I explained it an then looked at him and told him I didn't understand where he was getting his. I walked out very happy.