SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  What's Your Deal!    Mechanics, please step inside - Catastrophic Brake Pad Evaporation or... Multi-Point Inspection Fraud?
Page 1 2 
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Mechanics, please step inside - Catastrophic Brake Pad Evaporation or... Multi-Point Inspection Fraud? Login/Join 
Striker in waiting
Picture of BurtonRW
posted
Here's the timeline. Tell me what you think.

2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk

3/29/18, 110K miles - installed spacer kit, upsized tires, and replaced original factory pads & rotors (still good) with Power Stop Z36 kit for improved heavy duty performance.

9/30/19, 173K miles - had the Jeep to the dealer for unrelated work and asked for a multi-point inspection while it was there. Brake pads all checked "Green" on green/red/yellow scale. You all know that form.

1/18/20, 188K miles - start hearing noise at low speed while applying brakes.

1/24/20 - noise is getting worse, find significant gouge/scoring on front right rotor. Order new Power Stop Z36 kit, arrived next day (because Amazon).

1/27/20 - Dealer wants $256/axle to install my parts, so I make an appointment w/ an independent shop ($129/axle).

1/28/20 - Noise is now loud grinding at low speed, intermittent, but w/ or w/o applying brakes, doesn't sound isolated to one wheel at all and I can feel it in the pedals.

1/29/20 - Independent shop says pads/rotors were metal on metal and intermittent grinding heard more while turning b/c of warping. Hubs/bearings all check out fine. No other steering/suspension/brake system damage noted.

So my question is....

What are the odds that my pads went from all "green" after 18 months/63K miles to metal on metal a mere 4 months/15K later?

-Rob




I predict that there will be many suggestions and statements about the law made here, and some of them will be spectacularly wrong. - jhe888

A=A
 
Posts: 15312 | Location: Maryland, AA Co. | Registered: March 16, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Wouldn’t say it’s impossible. The “green” inspection could have been border line yellow or not checked properly. Throw in the added weight of the new tires and pads can dwindle faster too.
 
Posts: 2449 | Location: The Low Country | Registered: October 21, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Perception
posted Hide Post
I wouldn't say that is impossible. My car eats pads from brand new to metal on metal in 10k miles. What it comes down to is that you got pretty close to 80k miles out of a set of brakes, and that seems pretty good to me. I've never seen the Green/ Yellow/ Red scale before though, because I just look to see if there is pad left and change them when there isn't.




"The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford, "it is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them. They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards."
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard, then the wrong lizard might get in."
 
Posts: 2678 | Location: Two blocks from the Center of the Universe | Registered: December 30, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Internet Guru
posted Hide Post
Impossible to say for sure, but I would also suspect they weren't fully in green during the 173K inspection.
 
Posts: 929 | Registered: April 06, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Striker in waiting
Picture of BurtonRW
posted Hide Post
To be clear, I’m not complaining in any way about getting 110K miles(+) out of the factory MOPAR brakes or 80K out of the PowerStop kit with the increased load. I’m just wondering if they really could have worn that completely, that fast.

Apparently, they can.

-Rob




I predict that there will be many suggestions and statements about the law made here, and some of them will be spectacularly wrong. - jhe888

A=A
 
Posts: 15312 | Location: Maryland, AA Co. | Registered: March 16, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Perception
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by BurtonRW:
To be clear, I’m not complaining in any way about getting 110K miles(+) out of the factory MOPAR brakes or 80K out of the PowerStop kit with the increased load. I’m just wondering if they really could have worn that completely, that fast.

Apparently, they can.

-Rob


Yeah, they can. Like some of the others said though, the tech that looked at them might have just seen they had some pad left, and called it green when they shouldn't have been marked that way.




"The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford, "it is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them. They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards."
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard, then the wrong lizard might get in."
 
Posts: 2678 | Location: Two blocks from the Center of the Universe | Registered: December 30, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
70k on a set of brakes is good. Especially with oversized tires and depending on driver. Likely that tech at dealer was lazy on the inspection. That is usually the problem. Have seen it alot at dealerships. I would say the brakes were running a little low and he missed them or just simply didn't do it. Alot of lube techs have a check sheet and they just run down through it and send it. The only other explanation is to look at the pads. If one wheel is wore more than the others, you could have a caliper or brake hose that seized up.
 
Posts: 451 | Location: OH | Registered: April 27, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of rtquig
posted Hide Post
It is possible. When I have seen that happen that quick, the caliper is usually the problem.


Living the Dream
 
Posts: 3438 | Location: New Jersey | Registered: December 06, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Not as lean, not as mean,
Still a Marine
Picture of Gibb
posted Hide Post
With aftermarket equipment, they may not have even looked at it. Or, they didn't realize what they were looking at.

I took my fleet managed work van to a tire/ service shop, for pulsating brakes, and they told the fleet company they were within specs.
Took it to the dealer the following week, found that the inner pad was gone, and the rotors were scorched.

I saw a photo, and I think the first "tech" saw the pad backer and thought it was the pad (covered in brake dust, it looked passable to me) and called it good.

Not saying this was definitely your case, but a possible scenario to look at?




I shall respect you until you open your mouth, from that point on, you must earn it yourself.
 
Posts: 2568 | Location: Southern Maine | Registered: February 10, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Raised Hands Surround Us
Three Nails To Protect Us
Picture of Black92LX
posted Hide Post
This is a common complaint that I have read about Power Stop. That once they start to go they go quickly and seem to disintegrate.

I had looked into these but think I will be going with Baer for both the Suburban and Expedition when they need new stuff.

I’d love to slap the Brembos on the Suburban from the RST Tahoe but $2500 is a bit steep.


--------------------------------------
Everybody’s got a blank page. A story they’re writing today. A wall that they’re climbing. You can carry the past on your shoulders.
Or you can start over.
Regrets, no matter what you goin’ through. Jesus, He gave it all to save you. He carried the cross on His shoulders. So you can start over.
~NF RealMusic~
 
Posts: 21136 | Registered: September 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Raptorman
Picture of Mars_Attacks
posted Hide Post
Upsized everything?

Yeah, it ate those brakes.


____________________________

Eeewwww, don't touch it!
Here, poke at it with this stick.
 
Posts: 31507 | Location: North, GA | Registered: October 09, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
Yes, they can easily go bad in 4 months with upsized tires.
 
Posts: 18790 | Registered: June 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of bobtheelf
posted Hide Post
After 63k still green, but then metal-on-metal after another 15k?

Either they just half-assed the inspection or there's something going on with the calipers not releasing properly. Maybe catastrophic disintegration of the pads is possible if they just fell off in chunks, but that seems unlikely to me.

Grinding without applying brakes makes me think calipers or bearings, but you said that all checked out, so that's really strange.
 
Posts: 3080 | Location: Nashville | Registered: July 23, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His diet consists of black
coffee, and sarcasm.
Picture of egregore
posted Hide Post
I'm having a hard time following your saga. Razz If the pads and rotors have now been replaced, I'd like to see them, including which pad went where.

If you put oversized tires/wheels on a vehicle, they act as giant flywheels. You may not feel it in terms of stopping power or pedal feel, but trust me, those brakes are working much harder to slow them down than with the original size.

I suspect your brakes may have been marginal at the last inspection, and another few thousand miles finally did them in for good, accelerated by the bigger wheels. There are several scenarios under which worn pads can be missed. With the wheels still on the car, if there is enough open space in the wheel to look through, it is possible to see the outer pad, but you can't see the inner one. If, for example, caliper pistons are sticking (and the additional heat also affects the seals and fluid inside), the inner pad can wear long before the outer. They aren't going to remove the wheels unless specifically instructed, say, for a tire rotation. Even if instructed, not all calipers let you see the inner pad. Moreover, unless the calipers and pads are removed, you can't always see, for example, cracking or delamination of the friction material or caliper piston boots torn on the bottom side. On most brake inspections they aren't going to do that. I still haven't forgotten the time the owner of the car bitched me out for doing it.

I find it ironic that after all the posts about shops - often stealerdealerships - trying to sell unneeded work, you come along bitching because they didn't sell you something. Razz

quote:

Grinding without applying brakes makes me think calipers or bearings, but you said that all checked out, so that's really strange.

Brakes into metal will most certainly make noise without applying them. It increases when applying them, assuming they haven't gone so far into metal that they go through one side of the rotor, the pad falls out and the piston pops out of the caliper and dumps the fluid. Roll Eyes
 
Posts: 23212 | Location: Johnson City/Elizabethton, TN | Registered: April 28, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I have nothing to add that others haven't already mentioned, but that's pretty impressive to get that many miles out of those Power Stop brakes! I never had a very high opinion of them. I started using Napa's ultra premium components a few years ago after guys on this forum recommended it and they have been fantastic.
 
Posts: 2544 | Location: Baltimore | Registered: October 22, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted Hide Post
Pads don’t always wear evenly on both sides of the caliper or the caliper is sticking.
The inspection may have been to look at the outside pad on each wheel to avoid the extra time of removing the wheel. The inside may have had more wear.
Another possibility, the caliper pins or piston could be sticking. That should have been noticed when the parts were replaced. If it was the pins cleaning and new grease may take care of the problem. A sticking piston is more involved.
 
Posts: 5660 | Location: North GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Raised Hands Surround Us
Three Nails To Protect Us
Picture of Black92LX
posted Hide Post
Also you mentioned new tires at 110k no mention of tires after that.
So do you have nearly 80k miles on these tires? There is a good candidate for your grinding/rumbling with out applying the brakes at low speeds.

If you have gone 80k on an oversized tire do share brand and model thanks.


--------------------------------------
Everybody’s got a blank page. A story they’re writing today. A wall that they’re climbing. You can carry the past on your shoulders.
Or you can start over.
Regrets, no matter what you goin’ through. Jesus, He gave it all to save you. He carried the cross on His shoulders. So you can start over.
~NF RealMusic~
 
Posts: 21136 | Registered: September 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His diet consists of black
coffee, and sarcasm.
Picture of egregore
posted Hide Post
I assume the car has electric power steering. With wide tires, I'd hate to be that little motor.

This is an extreme outlier case, but I've got a 2003 (out here, that is relatively new) Dodge Ram 2500 "on deck" with a broken steering box. Eek That's right, the shaft sheared off clean and the pitman arm, with the nut and the other half of the shaft still in it, is dangling off the end of the drag link. Coincidentally, the truck has tires three and a half feet in diameter and a foot and a half wide. Although going on 17 years old and ~150,000 miles, this probably didn't didn't help it any. The point is that oversized tires put extra stress on everything, and is something to be aware of.
 
Posts: 23212 | Location: Johnson City/Elizabethton, TN | Registered: April 28, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
His diet consists of black
coffee, and sarcasm.
Picture of egregore
posted Hide Post
quote:
Multi-Point Inspection Fraud

Where is the fraud? Confused You most likely weren't charged for it (but it is worked in), nor did anybody sell you anything.
 
Posts: 23212 | Location: Johnson City/Elizabethton, TN | Registered: April 28, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Striker in waiting
Picture of BurtonRW
posted Hide Post
Fraud wasn’t the right word to use. Should have said lazy, incompetent, or half-assed, although it is, by definition, fraudulent to say that you have done something which you have not, just not in any legal meaning of the word.

Anyhoo.... This isn’t an extreme lift (2” spacers) and the alignment is still within factory specs. I just wanted a little extra ground clearance and space for a slightly larger tire w/o rubbing. I only went from 245/65-17 to 245/70-17. You might not even notice unless I was next to a stock Trailhawk. It was mostly the added weight that prompted me to upgrade the brakes when I did.

Black, the OEM tires were Firestone Destination A/Ts and still had tread when I replaced them with BFG All-Terrain T/A KO2s. I’ve been very happy with both and the BFG’s are going strong. I can measure my tread depth later if you’d like. Doing a correct five tire rotation certainly helps to extend tread life.

-Rob




I predict that there will be many suggestions and statements about the law made here, and some of them will be spectacularly wrong. - jhe888

A=A
 
Posts: 15312 | Location: Maryland, AA Co. | Registered: March 16, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  What's Your Deal!    Mechanics, please step inside - Catastrophic Brake Pad Evaporation or... Multi-Point Inspection Fraud?

© SIGforum 2019