I am thinking about loading 223, the books aren't very helpful as they are designed for single stage folks. Being able to do quantity is important to me, but I still want something that can shoot reasonably well.

But the information I see on the internet seems to conflict about when to do sizing. Some say size before the trim, others seem to size after the trim. Do I do both?

Right now this is what I am thinking, I obviously need to do it two passes due to the 650 tool head limitations.

First pass full length sizing die, swager, and then Dillon trimmer.

Second pass thinking about using the floating die tool head. Expansion, powder, MBF bullet dropper, Redding Competition Seater, and Lee FCD.

I have a couple candidates on powder, but being able to dispense accurately out of the Dillon powder measure is important. So it will likely be a ball powder.

Thoughts? Comments?

You size, then trim.
If you do it the opposite way, you run the risk of going too long again once it's sized.

I do lots of steps lol. Universal decapper all, swage all, full length size all, trim all, chamfer/ debur all. Toss them in ammo can.
Then I set up press for priming, powder drop, bullet seating and crimp.

That's on my L-n-L

Size first, no reason to trim unless the case is sized.

The aftermarket swagers from GS or Swage it void Dillon's no BS warranty.

Yes, it takes two passes one with a size die and the trimmer then load the case feeder back up and run the loading pass.

A ball powder is a good idea. 748, TAC and the like are good choices.

quote:

Originally posted by jmorris:
The aftermarket swagers from GS or Swage it void Dillon's no BS warranty.

I'll make sure to wear this shirt as I am swaging.

http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/8f52/

Loading and seating is no big deal. Brass prep is a royal PITA.

RMD

^
it is spot on
That is the reason I use a single stage to work up all my rifle brass.
it is an ordeal and goes like this;
Tumble clean,sized on the rcbs rockchucker,trimmed to spec camper, chaffed and back into tumbler.
Then I can run it thru the 550's
Time has taught me this,no shortcuts and that equals 100% great reloads.

223 is handled thusly in my house:

Decap DIRTY once fired Lake City.
Swage DIRTY once fired Lake City on a Dillon Super Swage mounted to my bench. Note, this only has to be done to each cartridge once, so it's not as big a deal as some make it out to be.

The reason I perform both of those steps on dirty brass is that the dirt acts as somewhat of a lubricant for the swage process, making it easier. When I swage clean brass, the punch has a tendency to be a bit sticky in the primer pocket.

Tumble using the method of your choosing.

Dump clean, lubed brass into the casefeeder on my 650. I use imperial case wax, since it requires the least amount of effort to run through a die, and I have NEVER stuck a case using it. Lower effort and no sticking (so as not to interrupt the workflow) are both very important on a progressive.

Once it's all been sized, tumble off the lube.

Trim using a Giraud or a Giraud Tri-way (I use a tri-way because I'm cheap like that).

Then dump it all in the casefeeder and go to town with loading it.

Once you've swaged all the cases that first time, the process is no different than loading any other rifle cartridge. Also, it's not necessary to trim each and every loading, so that piece of headache is also reduced.

Be sure to select the correct powder, something that will flow easily in the Dillon PM. I use CFE-223. Something like Varget would be an incredibly poor choice if your goal is accurate ammo.

quote:

Originally posted by 45 Cal:
^
it is spot on
That is the reason I use a single stage to work up all my rifle brass.
it is an ordeal and goes like this;
Tumble clean,sized on the rcbs rockchucker,trimmed to spec camper, chaffed and back into tumbler.
Then I can run it thru the 550's
Time has taught me this,no shortcuts and that equals 100% great reloads.

I do the same thing. +swaging after cleaned first time if I need too.

quote:

Originally posted by rduckwor:
Loading and seating is no big deal. Brass prep is a royal PITA.

Yeah, that is why I have been avoiding loading rifle cartridges since I got back into reloading.

I don't want to have to sit there and measure and inspect every cartridge.

So those of you with only a 650 press, how would you do it? Just get a universal decapper die, which one, for the 650?

I'd rather not get another press right now as I'm still collecting parts and pieces and would like to get started on the brass prep at least.

quote:

Originally posted by Riley:
So those of you with only a 650 press, how would you do it? Just get a universal decapper die, which one, for the 650?

I'd rather not get another press right now as I'm still collecting parts and pieces and would like to get started on the brass prep at least.

The Lee Universal Decapper is cheap.

I run a regular size die with expander in station 1 set the same as the trim die.

quote:

Originally posted by PPGMD:

quote:

Originally posted by Riley:
So those of you with only a 650 press, how would you do it? Just get a universal decapper die, which one, for the 650?

I'd rather not get another press right now as I'm still collecting parts and pieces and would like to get started on the brass prep at least.

The Lee Universal Decapper is cheap.

So is a Lee Reloader press.




Link to original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52E2zHbb3uY


http://www.midwayusa.com/produ...r-single-stage-press

I have several of these for various purposes. They are cheap (even cheaper when on sale, I think I got one for $20), and they work well for the tasks I need. I decap EVERYTHING on one of these. Keeps the progressives cleaner, so they don't require cleaning so often, don't have priming issues, etc.

Years ago I loaded 223 & 22-250 on my 550 Dillon.

Never have attempted to do such on the 650.
Neck sizing 308s has been enough joy.

Loading 45-70 was ok but ponderous.

Don't think I'll get around to 223 on the 650 though. Thanks for the tips.

If you want to eliminate half the usefulness and speed the case feeder/collator can deliver you could hand feed every case into a single stage and decap it.

If you setup a "prep" tool head you just size/deprimed and trim, then put everything into a collator again for the load pass.

1800 cases an hour is doable but I generally run between 1200-1500/hr.

I priced out all the parts, and then calculated my savings per a round. Yikes.

I am going to be collecting the parts for this slowly.

quote:

Originally posted by jmorris:
If you want to eliminate half the usefulness and speed the case feeder/collator can deliver you could hand feed every case into a single stage and decap it.

If you setup a "prep" tool head you just size/deprimed and trim, then put everything into a collator again for the load pass.

1800 cases an hour is doable but I generally run between 1200-1500/hr.

I'm well aware, I have a 650 as well. I don't decap ANYTHING on my progressives since I don't like all the extra dirt and shit that gets all over them. Makes them run rough, fouls up the priming system on the 550, have to clean them all the damn time...

I'm not in any hurry. I want accurate ammo, and that's my only goal. If I wanted it fast, I'd just go buy some.

quote:

I'm not in any hurry. I want accurate ammo, and that's my only goal. If I wanted it fast, I'd just go buy some.

Yep, if your not in a hurry a single stage will make ammunition just as good as a progressive and both are slower than buying.

If I could buy the same recipes that I load for the same price or even a little more, I would, sell all of my equipment except what I needed for further development and that wouldn't be a progressive.

quote:

Originally posted by exx1976:
I'm not in any hurry. I want accurate ammo, and that's my only goal. If I wanted it fast, I'd just go buy some.

Not all of us load for that reason. I'm more quantity over quality, though I do expect a minimum quality level.

I mostly am looking to load enough to support my practice and match shooting. Which is why everything is done progressively and on the machine. I want the least amount of manual steps.

Unfortunately buying these loads would cost me almost three times what it costs me to load them.

I load .223 on a 550B, and only use ball propellant. Meters extremely accurately, and smoothly w/o charge bar hangups, or drop tube bridging. I also coat the charge bar track, and drop tube with a small amount of powdered graphite (bottom of the primer bar too).

As for accuracy, I load for my heavy varmint rig in .243 Win, and the results are just fine... IMO, and experience, you give up little/no precision using the Dillon platform, for anything but perhaps true BR ammo.