Primer mildew?

September 08, 2018, 10:05 PM

signewt

Primer mildew?

cleaning out the back recesses of the old boonker & was startled to find evidence of mildew both on the external package as well as some dark coloration across the external primer cup.

Never a leak or actually wet, these are marked when put into storage late in 2009.

Inclination is to dispose of affected boxes. What's the best method of dealing with these?

September 09, 2018, 06:30 AM

jsjac

I would try a few and see how they work. If just for range use.
I have been vacuum bagging my bullets and primers in my stash. The basement is dry but want to avoid the problem you are running into.

September 09, 2018, 06:48 AM

Alcapone396

Living down south with the humidity we have, vacuum sealing has been my choice since before Katrina...I pull down just enough vacuum to remove the air and then seal..I probably have thirty five to forty thousand primers sealed up right now. Works well on brass and bullets also but you have to watch the sharp edges on the brass will cut your bags..I put mine in a heavy piece of plastic first and then into the bag!

Al______________Capone396

P220 Combat, P220 Sport, P220EL, X-5 Comp 9mm , P226 BlackWater, P226 ST.357 Sig, P226ST 9mm, P229ST .40, P228, P232 SL, Glock 19, CZ75BSS, CZ-83, S&W 29, S&W 640, S&W 642, Ruger MKII, Ruger Charger,, HKP7,,Browning Hi Power, Colt Anaconda, S&W 460 Mag, RRA 9mm CAR, Robinson Arms XCR, FN-SLP ,Arsenal SAS-M7,, Built AR-15 with lots of goodies,,Etc, Etc, Etc.....

September 09, 2018, 07:27 AM

45 Cal

I have touted this for as long as I been on this forum.
Ammo cans,they might look pretty on the shelf in those factory shipping boxes but put them in 50 cal ammo cans when they arrive,has worked for me for five decades.

September 09, 2018, 09:21 AM

sigcrazy7

Man, we are so spoiled in Utah when it comes to storing stuff. Put it in the basement, and twenty years later everything looks just like the day you put it there.

September 09, 2018, 10:51 AM

signewt

Appreciate the comments gentlemen!

Odd occurrence for sure, as there are other boxes stored the same location, for longer periods, with no such damage.

However, this has given excuse...er....REASON enough to finally Go Vacuum!!!

I've got a few primers left from the 80s showing no similar growth.

And there is opportunity coming up for a few more ammo cans.....

September 11, 2018, 11:47 AM

flesheatingvirus

All:

I do NOT recommend vacuum sealing primers. You will eventually see degradation in performance due to vapor loss of some of the energetic constituents into that free volume. I've had to dig the primer compound out of hundreds of these at work, and we then perform chemical analysis as well as performance testing on live units. The primary conclusion from these tests was that vacuum sealing is a NO GO for primers, especially long term. Granted, we are more concerned with the slightest change in performance; in reality, it may not be noticeable in most reloading applications. I'd rather not chance it on thousands of my primers.

Store them in a sealed container with desiccant.

________________________________________

-- Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past me I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. --

September 12, 2018, 09:47 AM

rduckwor

quote:
Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
All:

I do NOT recommend vacuum sealing primers. You will eventually see degradation in performance due to vapor loss of some of the energetic constituents into that free volume. I've had to dig the primer compound out of hundreds of these at work, and we then perform chemical analysis as well as performance testing on live units. The primary conclusion from these tests was that vacuum sealing is a NO GO for primers, especially long term. Granted, we are more concerned with the slightest change in performance; in reality, it may not be noticeable in most reloading applications. I'd rather not chance it on thousands of my primers.

Store them in a sealed container with desiccant.

This finding is curious. It seems to me that unless vacuum storage encourages "leaking" or leaching of low volatility components, the storage in a larger free space even with desiccant in place would encourage even more component loss.

I would like to see the analysis of the components to get a better idea of what is happening. Not disputing your findings at all, but curious.

RMD

September 12, 2018, 12:03 PM

Alcapone396

quote:
Originally posted by rduckwor:
quote:
Originally posted by flesheatingvirus:
All:

I do NOT recommend vacuum sealing primers. You will eventually see degradation in performance due to vapor loss of some of the energetic constituents into that free volume. I've had to dig the primer compound out of hundreds of these at work, and we then perform chemical analysis as well as performance testing on live units. The primary conclusion from these tests was that vacuum sealing is a NO GO for primers, especially long term. Granted, we are more concerned with the slightest change in performance; in reality, it may not be noticeable in most reloading applications. I'd rather not chance it on thousands of my primers.

Store them in a sealed container with desiccant.

This finding is curious. It seems to me that unless vacuum storage encourages "leaking" or leaching of low volatility components, the storage in a larger free space even with desiccant in place would encourage even more component loss.

I would like to see the analysis of the components to get a better idea of what is happening. Not disputing your findings at all, but curious.

RMD

I'm keeping mine sealed until some rock solid proof shows me that it's not the way to keep my primers!! Most of mine have been that way for many years and still function fine without any loss in power or ignition!!!

September 12, 2018, 12:20 PM

rduckwor

Well, mine are sealed as well, but not vacuum packed.

There are proven ways to analyze the chemical composition in the headspace surrounding the chemicals. I was curious about the methodology of this study.

RMD

September 17, 2018, 10:43 PM

flesheatingvirus

quote:
Originally posted by rduckwor:

This finding is curious. It seems to me that unless vacuum storage encourages "leaking" or leaching of low volatility components, the storage in a larger free space even with desiccant in place would encourage even more component loss.

I would like to see the analysis of the components to get a better idea of what is happening. Not disputing your findings at all, but curious.

RMD

It's not about free volume. It's about free volume in vacuum vs free volume with ambient air pressure. Volatile components will vaporize much more easily under vacuum, and many barely at all under atmospheric pressure.

quote:
Originally posted by Alcapone396:

I'm keeping mine sealed until some rock solid proof shows me that it's not the way to keep my primers!! Most of mine have been that way for many years and still function fine without any loss in power or ignition!!!

That's your choice. As I said, for our uses, we may not ever see a difference. For me, the extra effort to vacuum seal just isn't worth it. A sealed, dry environment works just as well without any risk of loss.