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Staring back
from the abyss
Picture of Gustofer
posted
I've never loaded 'em. Dad used to, but unfortunately I never paid attention while he did, so I know nothing.

I've got a Lee loader (press), a bunch of (Remington) hulls, umpteen pounds of Unique, Red Dot, and various other powders, a recent delivery of Cheddite primers, and a few bags of #4 and #6 lead shot.

What I don't have are wads. Not sure which ones to get/use. I can't imagine that there'd be much difference between any of them with an explosion going on underneath, but apparently there is.

Any recommendations for wads? And loads? I'm looking for duck and upland bird (pheasant/partridge) loads.


________________________________________________________
"Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil." Doug Patton.
 
Posts: 19974 | Location: Montana | Registered: November 01, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
semi-reformed sailor
Picture of MikeinNC
posted Hide Post
From what I’ve heard loading shotshells is that you have to stick to a known recipe. She’ll, powder,wad, shot…or you can have bad experience just like with metallic reloading.



"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein

“You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020

“A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker
 
Posts: 11233 | Location: Temple, Texas! | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
Picture of Flash-LB
posted Hide Post
I've reloaded shotgun since 1969, 12 gauge, 20 gauge and 410 bore. I still do it just about every week.

Yes, you need to stick to a recipe, not one your buddy gave you but a published recipe from either a reloading handbook or a powder manufacturer's reloading website. All factors are critical, hull, primer, wad, shot, powder.

What wad you use is determined by the load you want, how many ounces of shot specifically as there are a few options on how much.

So you determine what gauge or bore, what primers you have, what hulls you have to reload, how much shot you want and what size, then find a published load for it. Your #4 shot is typically for waterfowl or birds or small animals around that size. If it's lead, it's illegal for waterfowl, though.

Using the wrong wad with a given load can cause a dangerous overcharge and blow up your gun, so it's nothing to fool with.

Here's a link to one of the best shotshell reloading handbooks, Lyman's 5th Edition on Amazon. It tells you how to reload and everything you need to know about all aspects of shotshells. I highly recommend it.

https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-S...l%2Caps%2C142&sr=8-2
 
Posts: 10626 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Staring back
from the abyss
Picture of Gustofer
posted Hide Post
Thank you sir. Ordered one up.


________________________________________________________
"Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil." Doug Patton.
 
Posts: 19974 | Location: Montana | Registered: November 01, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
Picture of Flash-LB
posted Hide Post
My pleasure.
 
Posts: 10626 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of hairy2dawg
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There are a lot of differences between the hulls, wads, & primers when loading for shotgun. I completely agree to use only published recipes when it comes to reloading. The hulls come in tapered basewads & straight wall basewads. Your wad will be chosen based on which hull you choose. I believe that all Remington, & most Winchester hulls have a tapered basewad. The wads also have specific payload sizes.

Shotgunworld has a great reloading forum for shotgun that covers all aspects of reloading for shotgun.
 
Posts: 1275 | Location: Athens, GA | Registered: February 01, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Currently I have 6 MEC Shotshell presses on my loading bench. I have 4 single stage presses in 12, 20, 28, & 410 and progressive presses in 28 gauge and 410. BTW, I shoot 4 gun Skeet and practice mainly with the 410 and 30% of the time with the 28. This summer I'll just be taking my 28/410 combo to matches because I've hit the point where I shoot the 28 better than either my 20 or 12 gauge. Note the reason for this is my 28/410 fits me perfectly and the 12 is pretty close but the 20 not so good.

Anyhow you are at a decent starting point but the Lee Load All is notorious for being cheap and for being very difficult to get consistent results with. I would suggest that you keep your eyes open for a used MEC 600 Jr. While getting the crimp tuned can be frustrating you will get it right sooner or later.

Speaking of Hulls, every different hull will require a crimp setup tuned to that hull. As a result most shotshell reloaders prefer to stick with just one Hull. For 80% of the 12 gauge loaders that means the Remington Gun Club. It will last through 30 or 40 reload cycles, is very forgiving for crimps and just plain works. Downside is that Cheddite primers will be very tight in Remington hulls until you've reloaded them at least 5 times. Times are tough in the shotgun world right now and Remington hulls have been difficult to find. One decent alternative is to go to Ballistic Products and pick up some Cheddite pre-primed hulls. They won't last as long as Gun Clubs and the crimps may be a bit ugly but they will work and should last for at least 10 reloads.

Wads. These are also a difficult to find if you want to use name brand wads such as Winchester or Remington. Good news is that clones are available under the Claybuster brand and they work as well as the name brands at 1/2 the price. Currently nearly all competitors in Trap, Skeet, or Sporting Clays are shooting with Claybuster wads or some other clone to a small degree. Note in the 12 gauge you can have shot charges ranging from 3/4 ounce all the way up to 2 ounces. If your only planning to load 2 3/4 inch shells the charge weight range is more limited to 3/4 ounce to 1 1/4 ounce. At each weight point will need a wad specific to that charge weight. So if you want to load 7/8 ounce shells you'll need 7/8 ounce wads. As a result before you order any wads you will need to decide on what you will be loading. One very typical load for 12 gauge is a 1 1/8 ounce charge in a 2 3/4 inch shell. Finally, using the wrong wad isn't going to cause your gun to blow up, worst case you could be a bit over pressure but modern guns are really over built. More typically the selection of an inappropriate wad will result in a very poor crimp that leaks shot.

Powders. Red Dot is a good choice for 12 gauge Shotshells. Unique not so much but it's a fantastic powder for 20 and 28 gauge. So hang onto the Unique in the event you pick up a 20 gauge shotgun.

Primers, I use Cheddite and nothing but Cheddite. CCI and Winchester lost me as a customer when they abandoned the reloading market.

Load Recipes. The Lyman manual is a good one. Hodgdon also has a very good source for data in their online reloading center. If you decide to go with Cheddite hulls Balistic Products has a Cheddite specific manual that you can download for about 20 bucks. I'll also note that Hodgdon has been adding cheddite based load data recently. Finally Alliant also has load data available for free downloads.


I've stopped counting.
 
Posts: 5599 | Location: Michigan | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Plus one on Flash and Scooter's posts...use the same components in the recipe!! Rod


5th Spl Forces, Air Force Bird Dog FAC, lll Corps RVN 69-70.... We enjoy the Bill of Rights by the sacrifices of our veterans;
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Posts: 725 | Registered: April 04, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Staring back
from the abyss
Picture of Gustofer
posted Hide Post
All great info guys, thanks again.

I haven't gotten around to loading yet - too many other things going on - but hope to soon.


________________________________________________________
"Great danger lies in the notion that we can reason with evil." Doug Patton.
 
Posts: 19974 | Location: Montana | Registered: November 01, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Just be aware that Sport Shooting with a Shotgun can ban addictive hobby. Fortunately for me quitting smoking freed up enough funding to allow me to purchase 9 shotguns, 8 presses, and a moderate reserve of powder, shot, and primers. I will also not that you will not find a finer group of people than those you meet on a Skeet Field. They will literally give you the shirt off their back if you need it, every single one. Yeah there is a fair bit of teasing that goes on but if someones gun fails at a match he'll have 4 or 6 offers of spares for him to continue shooting with.


I've stopped counting.
 
Posts: 5599 | Location: Michigan | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
PopeDaddy
Picture of x0225095
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Scooter123:
Currently I have 6 MEC Shotshell presses on my loading bench. I have 4 single stage presses in 12, 20, 28, & 410 and progressive presses in 28 gauge and 410. BTW, I shoot 4 gun Skeet and practice mainly with the 410 and 30% of the time with the 28. This summer I'll just be taking my 28/410 combo to matches because I've hit the point where I shoot the 28 better than either my 20 or 12 gauge. Note the reason for this is my 28/410 fits me perfectly and the 12 is pretty close but the 20 not so good.

Anyhow you are at a decent starting point but the Lee Load All is notorious for being cheap and for being very difficult to get consistent results with. I would suggest that you keep your eyes open for a used MEC 600 Jr. While getting the crimp tuned can be frustrating you will get it right sooner or later.

Speaking of Hulls, every different hull will require a crimp setup tuned to that hull. As a result most shotshell reloaders prefer to stick with just one Hull. For 80% of the 12 gauge loaders that means the Remington Gun Club. It will last through 30 or 40 reload cycles, is very forgiving for crimps and just plain works. Downside is that Cheddite primers will be very tight in Remington hulls until you've reloaded them at least 5 times. Times are tough in the shotgun world right now and Remington hulls have been difficult to find. One decent alternative is to go to Ballistic Products and pick up some Cheddite pre-primed hulls. They won't last as long as Gun Clubs and the crimps may be a bit ugly but they will work and should last for at least 10 reloads.

Wads. These are also a difficult to find if you want to use name brand wads such as Winchester or Remington. Good news is that clones are available under the Claybuster brand and they work as well as the name brands at 1/2 the price. Currently nearly all competitors in Trap, Skeet, or Sporting Clays are shooting with Claybuster wads or some other clone to a small degree. Note in the 12 gauge you can have shot charges ranging from 3/4 ounce all the way up to 2 ounces. If your only planning to load 2 3/4 inch shells the charge weight range is more limited to 3/4 ounce to 1 1/4 ounce. At each weight point will need a wad specific to that charge weight. So if you want to load 7/8 ounce shells you'll need 7/8 ounce wads. As a result before you order any wads you will need to decide on what you will be loading. One very typical load for 12 gauge is a 1 1/8 ounce charge in a 2 3/4 inch shell. Finally, using the wrong wad isn't going to cause your gun to blow up, worst case you could be a bit over pressure but modern guns are really over built. More typically the selection of an inappropriate wad will result in a very poor crimp that leaks shot.

Powders. Red Dot is a good choice for 12 gauge Shotshells. Unique not so much but it's a fantastic powder for 20 and 28 gauge. So hang onto the Unique in the event you pick up a 20 gauge shotgun.

Primers, I use Cheddite and nothing but Cheddite. CCI and Winchester lost me as a customer when they abandoned the reloading market.

Load Recipes. The Lyman manual is a good one. Hodgdon also has a very good source for data in their online reloading center. If you decide to go with Cheddite hulls Balistic Products has a Cheddite specific manual that you can download for about 20 bucks. I'll also note that Hodgdon has been adding cheddite based load data recently. Finally Alliant also has load data available for free downloads.


Just reading this. I don’t venture here much but I should. Good info here.

I just picked up some federal 209’s from Ballistic and some of their pre-primed federal hulls last month. I’ll be on the hunt for cheddite recipes next. Do they have much for 20?


0:01
 
Posts: 4200 | Location: ALABAMA | Registered: January 05, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ballistic Products has a downloadable loading manual for Cheddite hulls. IRRC the cost is something in the range of 15 bucks. If you want to use Cheddite Hulls I suggest spending the money for this manual.

Cheddite hulls in the 20 gauge is bit of a challenge. Cheddite builds the 20 gauge hulls with a lot of extra internal depth, as a result you run into stack height issues and dished crimps. Use a 7/8 ounce wad in a Cheddite hull and there is enough internal depth to load a 1 ounce charge of shot. Personally I use a 3/4 ounce wad for loading 7/8 ounce shells when loading Cheddite hulls. That will reduce the dishing enough that you won't have shells leaking shot into the box you store them in. I also strongly prefer the Remington Gun Clubs, enough that I'll purchase a flat of shells if I see one.

Where Cheddite hulls shine for me is in the 28 and 410 gauges, they will outlast a Winchester AAHS hull by a two to one factor. They still run a bit deep in these gauges but if you fiddle with the crimp enough you can get a decent looking crimp that doesn't leak that is only slightly dished.


I've stopped counting.
 
Posts: 5599 | Location: Michigan | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Plowing straight ahead come what may
Picture of Bisleyblackhawk
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I’ve always used Claybuster “clone” Winchester wads for my Cowboy Action shotgun reloads…I’ve always been satisfied with them and the lesser price has always been nice…my local dealer has them for for about $5 per 500 less than the name brand factory wads and I can’t see any difference between them when reloading or performance.


********************************************************

"we've gotta roll with the punches, learn to play all of our hunches
Making the best of what ever comes our way
Forget that blind ambition and learn to trust your intuition
Plowing straight ahead come what may
And theres a cowboy in the jungle"
Jimmy Buffet
 
Posts: 10579 | Location: Southeast Tennessee...not far above my homestate Georgia | Registered: March 10, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Rumors of my death
are greatly exaggerated
Picture of coloradohunter44
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Depending upon the gun you shoot, don't forget to resize the bases. I went from shooting all the handloads in a double gun..to using some in a Benelli semi auto. They would not come out of the tube magazine since the bases were too fat. Once I realized this and resized the bases, the problem was fixed.



"Someday I hope to be half the man my bird-dog thinks I am."

FBLM LGB!
 
Posts: 10894 | Location: Commirado | Registered: July 23, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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One additional note on loading with Cheddite hulls. I recently took a Mec 600 press out of retirement so I could set it up to reload 3/4 ounce 20 gauge shells. This is a situation where the 3/4 ounce Claybuster's wad just didn't provide enough stack height to get a usable crimp with a Cheddite hull. Basically the crimp folds went straight down with a giant hole in the center.

The solution was an old Farmers trick. Back in the 30's to 50's if a farmer couldn't find a suitable wad he used cornmeal as the wad. What I was told is that under pressure a plug of cornmeal will compress into a semi solid mass and work well as a wad. What I did was take a Lee powder scoop and use the 1cc scoop to pore a measured amount of cormeal into the Claybuster's wad cup and then drop the shot charge. The result was a near factory looking crimp that looked and shot perfect. Note I've also used cherios for this but they vary a lot in volume so cornmeal is much more consistent.

Concerning actually using cornmeal as the sole wad in a shotshell, I will be trying this out. If it works it's a new alternative and if it doesn't work then it's just another Urban Myth.


I've stopped counting.
 
Posts: 5599 | Location: Michigan | Registered: November 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Plowing straight ahead come what may
Picture of Bisleyblackhawk
posted Hide Post
Whenever I need more shot volume in a wad to maintain a proper crimp…I use Cheerios in the bottom of the wad before dropping the shot…depending on the shot size vs weight I would add to or subtract the number of Cheerios needed to bring up the shot volume to achieve a proper crimp…why use Cheerios?…each one is pretty much the same size and volume (consistent) and they are easy to drop into any wad before you drop the lead and their weight is pretty much nil in the load…plus when you shoot the adjusted load…it smells like breakfast Wink Smile Razz


********************************************************

"we've gotta roll with the punches, learn to play all of our hunches
Making the best of what ever comes our way
Forget that blind ambition and learn to trust your intuition
Plowing straight ahead come what may
And theres a cowboy in the jungle"
Jimmy Buffet
 
Posts: 10579 | Location: Southeast Tennessee...not far above my homestate Georgia | Registered: March 10, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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