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Member
Picture of sigcrazy7
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by gearhounds:
It’s been the better part of 2 years. Do the math.


I’ll say it again since you seem to be ignoring the point. They have no obligation to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to build new facilities, hire a workforce, buy tooling, get the permits, for what may be transient demand. Even if they could do all of those things, right in the middle of a pandemic, they have no obligation to do so. Underutilized facilities, like the Remington facility, have now been brought online by Vista Outdoor and is now producing at full capacity. This, of course, blows the sophomoric greed argument out of the water. Why wouldn’t Federal just restrict supply by allowing the Remington facility to idle, if your theory is accurate?

Two years ago this demand was not there. It takes longer than that to build new facilities. Do that math. Even longer in the middle of a pandemic with shortages and lockdowns. Not to mention shortages in their own supply chain. However, you can’t find primers at your local shop, so there must be a primer cartel that is out to disrupt the market. Never mind the other shortages rippling throughout our whole economy.



Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus
 
Posts: 7664 | Location: Utah | Registered: December 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Wait, what?
Picture of gearhounds
posted Hide Post
You’re not making any sense- there is no need to do any of what you mention. None. Two years is plenty of time to catch up with supply shortages. You yourself said that the manufacturers are running at full capacity. And I’ll say it again- when multiple gun stores that deal heavily in reloading are saying they cannot even order primers or powder because suppliers are not filling orders, all those components that are normally produced are going somewhere. It is simply more lucrative to sell loaded ammunition than it is to sell the components that allow us to do it for less.




“Remember to get vaccinated or a vaccinated person might get sick from a virus they got vaccinated against because you’re not vaccinated.” - author unknown
 
Posts: 13839 | Location: Martinsburg WV | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Staring back
from the abyss
Picture of Gustofer
posted Hide Post
I've only been reloading since the late 90s but dad reloaded from the 50s on and I never remember, even during periods of political "unrest" as it were, there being shortages of components during that time. As far back as I can remember there were always powders and primers available around here.

Nowadays, every single time Sarah Brady sneezes you can't find powder for three years. Either every hoarding asshole out there has a 30X40 shop stacked to the rafters or the manufacturers simply slow up production. There aren't, in my estimation, that many more people shooting or reloading more than there were 5-10-15-20-50 years ago to account for years-long shortages, so that leaves the manufacturers dicking around.

"Transient demand" doesn't exist in this area. There has always been and will always be reloaders wanting to buy those components. Primers and powder have decades long shelf lives. They don't outdate, so however many/much they make they will get sold eventually. So, none of these manufacturers will get their asses handed to them if they happen to overproduce.

I used to blame the hoarders (and they do share some of it), but this is pretty much all on the manufacturers.

Sigcrazy7 does have a valid point in that they have no obligation to make any of us happy. Nor does the local truckstop have an obligation to have fresh corndogs available...but it is a pretty piss-poor business decision in my opinion.

Business isn't my strong point though, so there's that.

All that said, anybody know where I can find some shotgun primers? Big Grin


________________________________________________________
Posterity! You will never know, how much it cost the present Generation, to preserve your Freedom! - I hope you will make a good use of it. - if you do not, I shall repent in Heaven, that I ever took half the Pains to preserve it. - John Adams
 
Posts: 17789 | Location: Montana | Registered: November 01, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
Picture of Flash-LB
posted Hide Post
This is the 4th Primer and powder shortage in my time and I've been reloading since the mid 1950s.

The first happened when Slick Willie got elected the first time and caught me by surprise. I was down to around 1,000 primers by the time they came back on the market and Mrs. Flash resolved that we would never be caught short again. We stocked up on primers and powder and .22s back then and have kept inventory above a certain level ever since. If you do that, you're not going to run out.

Shotgun primers are problematic and I don't really know why. All the other types of primers are available here and there, enough I could buy some of every type at least once a month, but I haven't seen shotgun primers for sale in 8 months or so.
 
Posts: 9339 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Now Serving 7.62
Picture of 10X-Shooter
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My local Dunhams has stacks of small rifle primers and magnum primers. I forget the make but can check next time I’m in there for anyone that needs them. I’m not sure if they sell online though.
 
Posts: 5746 | Location: TN | Registered: February 12, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of TRshootem
posted Hide Post
Gustofer...every time I go to Sportsmans in Helena the only primers they have are shot shell. Another local store will sell you 100 rifle or pistol primers when purchasing bullets. I did just that and paid $4.59 for Federal 210M's. My 6.5 CM needed some more fuel as well, grabbed some more Winchester Staball. TR
 
Posts: 1317 | Location: Montana | Registered: October 20, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Staring back
from the abyss
Picture of Gustofer
posted Hide Post
I have plenty of rifle and pistol ones, it's the shotshell ones that I need. I may have to drive over next week. Last time I stopped at Sportsman's in Missoula they were out of everything imaginable. They had even taken out the aisle that they used to keep powder on. Must have gotten tired at looking at the empty shelves.


________________________________________________________
Posterity! You will never know, how much it cost the present Generation, to preserve your Freedom! - I hope you will make a good use of it. - if you do not, I shall repent in Heaven, that I ever took half the Pains to preserve it. - John Adams
 
Posts: 17789 | Location: Montana | Registered: November 01, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best
Picture of 92fstech
posted Hide Post
quote:
I used to blame the hoarders (and they do share some of it), but this is pretty much all on the manufacturers.

Sigcrazy7 does have a valid point in that they have no obligation to make any of us happy. Nor does the local truckstop have an obligation to have fresh corndogs available...but it is a pretty piss-poor business decision in my opinion.



I'll agree with this. I'm getting pretty sick and tired of hunting for primers all the time, and paying through the nose to get them when I do find them. I had over 10k when covid started, figured I had a good stockpile on hand, but it barely lasted the first year. The problem with reloading components is how many can you practically store in your home safely? If I ever have a fire in the basement, I don't want some 55 gallon drum of powder and 50,000 primers sending my house into low earth orbit. I'm probably already well over the "safe" threshold as it is, yet it's still not anywhere near enough if the suppliers aren't going to do their job and put stuff on the shelves.

Before covid, I was shooting about 5,000-6,000 rounds of 9mm per-year alone, not counting stuff for work. That's gone down the toilet. My progressive that I use for 9mm has been idle for almost the entire pandemic, because everything I am loading is done in small batches as needed to maximize my utilization of what I have left...I'm just loading to replace what I shot at my last session.

The good news is, I'm starting to see them on the shelves again. It's not in any way regular or dependable yet, but if you look you can find them. The bad news is they're still really expensive. I just paid $90/1000 for one box each of small and large pistol. It's outrageous, but it's still cheaper than doing anything else, as I already have all the other components bought and paid for. I even bought molds for pretty much everything I shoot and started casting this past year so that I could make my own, and not have to depend upon commercial suppliers. I just finished processing 106 lbs of scrap lead into ingots last night.

Apparently the old saying is true...if you want something done right, do it yourself. You can't really make your own primers, though. I did actually play around with that, just to see if I could. It's a huge pain, they work about 50% of the time, and they're horribly corrosive. Nice to know I have the stuff and could potentially do it if the the apocalypse truly strikes...but not something I really want to ever have to do for real.
 
Posts: 6012 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Wait, what?
Picture of gearhounds
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quote:
I just paid $90/1000

I would also pay this if I could find such a deal. A local shop has them for $18 per hundred. I won't be paying such highway robbery.




“Remember to get vaccinated or a vaccinated person might get sick from a virus they got vaccinated against because you’re not vaccinated.” - author unknown
 
Posts: 13839 | Location: Martinsburg WV | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
Picture of Flash-LB
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 92fstech:
quote:
I used to blame the hoarders (and they do share some of it), but this is pretty much all on the manufacturers.

Sigcrazy7 does have a valid point in that they have no obligation to make any of us happy. Nor does the local truckstop have an obligation to have fresh corndogs available...but it is a pretty piss-poor business decision in my opinion.



I'll agree with this. I'm getting pretty sick and tired of hunting for primers all the time, and paying through the nose to get them when I do find them. I had over 10k when covid started, figured I had a good stockpile on hand, but it barely lasted the first year. The problem with reloading components is how many can you practically store in your home safely? If I ever have a fire in the basement, I don't want some 55 gallon drum of powder and 50,000 primers sending my house into low earth orbit. I'm probably already well over the "safe" threshold as it is, yet it's still not anywhere near enough if the suppliers aren't going to do their job and put stuff on the shelves.

Before covid, I was shooting about 5,000-6,000 rounds of 9mm per-year alone, not counting stuff for work. That's gone down the toilet. My progressive that I use for 9mm has been idle for almost the entire pandemic, because everything I am loading is done in small batches as needed to maximize my utilization of what I have left...I'm just loading to replace what I shot at my last session.

The good news is, I'm starting to see them on the shelves again. It's not in any way regular or dependable yet, but if you look you can find them. The bad news is they're still really expensive. I just paid $90/1000 for one box each of small and large pistol. It's outrageous, but it's still cheaper than doing anything else, as I already have all the other components bought and paid for. I even bought molds for pretty much everything I shoot and started casting this past year so that I could make my own, and not have to depend upon commercial suppliers. I just finished processing 106 lbs of scrap lead into ingots last night.

Apparently the old saying is true...if you want something done right, do it yourself. You can't really make your own primers, though. I did actually play around with that, just to see if I could. It's a huge pain, they work about 50% of the time, and they're horribly corrosive. Nice to know I have the stuff and could potentially do it if the the apocalypse truly strikes...but not something I really want to ever have to do for real.


A lot of people I know in Arizona store their powder and primers in storage sheds in their yards so they don't have to worry about anything.

If you can get away with storing primers and powder outside in Arizona, and you can, you can do it anywhere. Temperature extremes don't bother them, water does.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Flash-LB,
 
Posts: 9339 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best
Picture of 92fstech
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I could do that (or could have, back when you could get stuff), but there are a few issues.

One is humidity...people from Arizona don't even know what that is. Here, it's a fact of life. I had to move my reloading gear out of the garage and into the basement because it was rusting just sitting there. There are times in the spring and fall around here when it goes from freezing cold to warm in a matter of hours, the air just turns to mist, and water condenses on everything. And by condenses, I mean water visibly beading up on the surface and running down everywhere. Yes, you could put stuff in a sealed container, but if there's any leakage at all, you're risking the destruction of thousands of dollars worth of components.

Two is theft. My shed is outside next to the garage and the kids are in and out of there all the time getting their bikes. They're pretty good about locking it, but even if it's locked, it would take somebody with a crowbar about 15 seconds to get in. My immediate neighbors are awesome, but there are plenty of meth-heads in the neighborhood who would be more than happy to help themselves to a large stockpile of reloading components given the opportunity. There's less chance of them knowing what's in the house, and from what they already know about me, they're probably pretty clear on what will happen to them if they break into my home...but the shed they'd likely be willing to risk.

Three, the shed is only about 4 feet from the side of the garage, which is attached to the house. I guess if it blew up, it would be better than the basement, but it's still not gonna be good.

Ultimately, my point is, it's only safe and practical to store so much. I know folks do it..I actually know a guy who literally has several 55 gallon drums of military pull-down powder in his basement, amongst other stuff. Good for him...but I'm not doing that.

There is no other product that I can think of that the manufacturers expect you to stockpile to maintain availability. Remember what happened with toilet paper two years ago? Yeah, that whole thing was idiotic, but I don't remember anybody saying that you ought to have 10 years of toilet paper stockpiled so you could be sure you would wipe your ass. Nobody has room to do that, and it's an absolutely unrealistic expectation. What happened was, there was an outcry, stores put limits in place, some idiots paid a fortune on ebay, and the manufacturers made more until demand was met.

Components are like any other consumer product...production needs to meet demand, otherwise you're just leaving money on the table. It's a burden on the manufacturers, sure...but it's also a money making opportunity, and I don't understand why it's taking them so long to take full advantage of that. If they're worried about the artificial inflation in demand causing the bottom to fall out, the only way to fix that is to reassure consumers that the stuff they need and want will actually be on the shelves when they want and need it. Until they can do that, the hoarding will continue and there will be no stability in the market.

Also, I think the market is less inflated than they think. Sure once stuff becomes available again, the hoarding factor will decrease, but there are a lot of new reloaders out there now who got set up because they couldn't buy ammo off the shelves, and thought they could get around that by reloading (jokes on you guys...the same people not maing enough ammo aren't making enough primers either!). Sure, some of those people will probably go back to buying factory ammo once it's readily available again, but some won't, and the reloading market will be stronger overall as a result.
 
Posts: 6012 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
Picture of Flash-LB
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Actually, the factory ammo thing is pretty gone around here. I see factory metallic and shotshell here and there all the time, saw a ton of it at Sportsmans Warehouse last week and was amazed.

And you're right about humidity. If it gets to 20% it starts bothering me, but the humidity won't affect powder as it's tightly capped, but perhaps it does have an adverse effect on primers, but I'm not sure as I have no real experience along those lines except for a couple of years I lived in the San Francisco Bay Area and kept my primers in the garage with an average humidity of 75%. Didn't keep the primers from working when I used them in my reloads though.
 
Posts: 9339 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best
Picture of 92fstech
posted Hide Post
quote:
Actually, the factory ammo thing is pretty gone around here. I see factory metallic and shotshell here and there all the time, saw a ton of it at Sportsmans Warehouse last week and was amazed.


Yeah, that's been getting better around here, too, but prices are still up and selection is pretty thin. Revolver ammo is pretty much non-existent unless you want .38 spcl plinking loads, but you can buy all the 9mm or .223 that you want provided you're ok paying for it.

My factory ammo needs are pretty much limited to very specific defensive loads (I reload all my practice ammo), so it's not doing me a lot of good yet. But I am happy to see stuff coming back.
 
Posts: 6012 | Location: In the Cornfields | Registered: May 25, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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