I recently joined a local range and I am brand new to this forum.
As a resident of Kentucky, I was delighted to learn that our governor (Matt Bevin) signed SB 150 into law earlier this year, eliminating the requirement for obtaining government documentation to exercise the right to bear arms for self-defense. (The new law goes into effect on July 1, 2019, at which point Kentucky will join the ranks of 15 other states that have eliminated their permit requirement: Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Idaho, Kansas, Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Dakota, West Virginia, Wyoming, and Vermont.)
Before learning of the new law, I had signed up for a CCW class to occur in mid-May. If I am willing to wait for the effective date of July 1, 2019, would there be any advantages to not seeking a CCW permit?
ETA: update on page 3.This message has been edited. Last edited by: Jefferson Steele,
How is your law worded? Sometimes a CCW can let you go armed into places that otherwise would be no-go. If you travel to other states, some may not allow carry unless you have a permit, but would honor one if you had it. [Last sentence edited for being self-contradictory.]This message has been edited. Last edited by: egregore,
Posts: 29080 | Location: Johnson City, TN | Registered: April 28, 2012
When I went into Canada some 15 years ago, the Canadian border gal obviously knew I had a permit from her computer readback, and asked about 10 extra questions pertaining to handguns and reminding me that I should tell her now if I had any guns. I had none, because I knew I was going to Canada, but not having a CHL would have saved about 5 minutes of questioning.
I was never asked about guns before I got a CHL, and have crossed over the border many times.
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Posts: 11213 | Location: 45 miles from the Pacific Ocean | Registered: February 28, 2003
Not all states record their concealed carry permit holders in accessible databases. Colorado law specifically forbids the practice.
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“I regret that I am to now die in the belief, that the useless sacrifice of themselves by the generation of 1776, to acquire self-government and happiness to their country, is to be thrown away by the unwise and unworthy passions of their sons, and that my only consolation is to be, that I live not to weep over it.” — Thomas Jefferson
Posts: 47963 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002
I can't think of any real benefits to not getting a permit, other than not having to go through the trouble/expense of getting one.
As egregore said, there may be fewer prohibited areas for those with permits than those without. From what I recall, in KY "no guns" signs don't carry legal weight (other than those places prohibited by statute) for those with permits. I don't know if that applies to non-permit holders.
Also, IIRC, KY's permit allows one to carry any weapon for self defense, not just guns (i.e., batons, tasers, knives, etc.), so that may be something to consider.
Personally, even if I lived somewhere a permit wsn't required, I'd still get the permit just for reciprocity when traveling.
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts." Sherlock Holmes
I've had one for awhile. It also has reciprocity in many other states. Monday, my wife did a CCW course. I went with her, and also repeated the course. The laws have changed (for the better, in many ways) since I did my original course. I found the review of interest.
A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master-and deserves one. Ronald Reagan, 1964, quoted from Alexander Hamilton
You should definitely take the class either way. As others stated, whether or not to get the permit depends on the exact wording of your State's law and whether you might want reciprocity.
“People have to really suffer before they can risk doing what they love.” –Chuck Palahnuik
Originally posted by egregore: How is your law worded? Sometimes a CCW can let you go armed into places that otherwise would be no-go. If you travel to other states, some may not allow carry unless you have a permit, but would honor one if you had it. [Last sentence edited for being self-contradictory.]
A local news source provided this summary:
A sponsor of Senate Bill 150, Senator Brandon Smith, said it would allow concealed carry without a license for people 21 and over. Smith said it wouldn’t change who is allowed to carry weapons, adding those with a criminal record would still be subject to current rules. He also said the bill won’t change where people can bring guns either.
Originally posted by radioman: When I went into Canada some 15 years ago, the Canadian border gal obviously knew I had a permit from her computer readback, and asked about 10 extra questions pertaining to handguns and reminding me that I should tell her now if I had any guns. I had none, because I knew I was going to Canada, but not having a CHL would have saved about 5 minutes of questioning.
I was never asked about guns before I got a CHL, and have crossed over the border many times.
Thanks for this example. By not getting the permit, will I be under less scrutiny during border crossings and traffic stops when I am not carrying? This is exactly my concern.
Originally posted by sigfreund: Not all states record their concealed carry permit holders in accessible databases. Colorado law specifically forbids the practice.
I certainly hope that is the case in Kentucky. Unfortunately, having reviewed the entirety of the new law [KRS CHAPTER 237], there does not appear to be any language to that effect. Perhaps it appears somewhere else in the Kentucky statutes.
Also, IIRC, KY's permit allows one to carry any weapon for self defense, not just guns (i.e., batons, tasers, knives, etc.), so that may be something to consider.
Personally, even if I lived somewhere a permit wasn't required, I'd still get the permit just for reciprocity when traveling.
I agree. These are two very good reasons for obtaining a permit.
By not getting the permit, will I be under less scrutiny
No. There are rules for transporting guns into Canada, if you follow the rules, no biggie.
By getting the permit, you have reciprocity in other states. By not getting the permit, you don't have reciprocity and a traffic stop is going to go the way they usually do. An officer is NOT going to assume you are unarmed because you don't have a permit.
-------- After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box.
Posts: 3917 | Location: Central AZ | Registered: October 26, 2006
Reading this headline in Breitbart sparked my original question: "Matt Bevin (R) signed legislation making the Second Amendment the only concealed carry permit needed in Kentucky." Link
Notwithstanding the possible advantage of not being in another governmental database, the comments thus far seem to weigh heavily in favor of obtaining a permit. Reciprocity seems to be the main advantage, as well as obtaining current instruction on the applicable laws.
I truly appreciate the helpful feedback. All things considered, it looks like I will be attending a class in mid-May.
