quote:

Originally posted by matthew03:

quote:

Originally posted by sleepla8er:
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Hi Captain,
Did you have a chance to watch the two videos in my thread?

https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/5050071914

I've also been looking at appendix carry and so far, I am leaning toward the holster I found because of where it is positioned when sitting.

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You will never have access to your gun if you are in any position other than standing. That holster is a death trap, please reconsider.

THIS!!!

Asking how appendix carry works is like asking how it works to shoot hogs with a rifle; the devil is in the details. Carrying a P239 or 2" S&W J frame like that including while sitting works fine for me, and I’m not particularly svelte. On the other hand, I’ve never tried carrying an 8 3/8" S&W model 629 like that, and doubt that it would be very comfortable if I did.

While experimenting it would be wise to try your setup out in the car to see exactly where your seatbelt would ride.

With my PM9 in a Nemesis I can get the belt below the Kahr. With my G29 or G19 in a Don Hume clip-on the seat belt is over the top of the gun. I think an accident could be really freaking ugly under those conditions, and don't consider a setup that has the seat belt over my rig to be safe at all.

I'm debating switching to AIWB and messing around with it now (P6 in a Remora). Here is a decent video from Sig Academy. Seated demo at the end.

It'll be dependent upon your body type. I carry AIWB daily, off-duty, going to court, everything now. I'm 6'1" & about 230#, so not a small guy, and it works very well for me. G19 or FNS9C, with the G19 being used most of the time (80% +). My brand is JM Custom Kydex; they make several AIWB rigs, but the one I get is called the "George". Full sweat guard & this is a big thing that really made AIWB work for me.....get the neoprene wedge with the holster. It really tucks the grip back into your body. I carry my spare mag in front, opposite side (left side for me) in an OWB kydex pouch. I can email you some pics if you'd like, but I don't photo bucket.

What's the second rule of gun safety? Never let the muzzle of a gun cover anything you're not willing to destroy.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
What's the second rule of gun safety? Never let the muzzle of a gun cover anything you're not willing to destroy.

Does it count as "covering" while it's resting inside the holster? If that's the case, it'll be "covering" one part of the body almost anywhere you carry it.

When it's in the holster, maybe not so much, When it's being drawn or reholstered, definitely.

Think about what the muzzle is pointed at when drawing/reholstering AIWB, especially sitting, vs IWB between 3 and 5 o'clock.

quote:

Originally posted by akcopnfbks:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
What's the second rule of gun safety? Never let the muzzle of a gun cover anything you're not willing to destroy.

Does it count as "covering" while it's resting inside the holster? If that's the case, it'll be "covering" one part of the body almost anywhere you carry it.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
When it's in the holster, maybe not so much, When it's being drawn or reholstered, definitely.

Think about what the muzzle is pointed at when drawing/reholstering AIWB, especially sitting, vs IWB between 3 and 5 o'clock.

Ugh. Yeah, valid point. I don't like thinking about it! AIWB is so damn fast and handy. I've tried to minimize the risk, but no denying it, it IS a bigger risk because of where the muzzle points during reholster. I don't know I'll switch back to OWB or IWB behind the hip, but I need to think about it.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
What's the second rule of gun safety? Never let the muzzle of a gun cover anything you're not willing to destroy.

Yes, but violation of just one rule will not cause you to shoot yourself. Each rule is a layer of safety. It takes violating at least two, three, sometimes all four. Pay attention to Rule Three (keep your finger off the trigger until the gun is on target) and there won't be a problem. How safe is it when you can't get to your gun when you need it?

I just got 2 Vedder LightTuck holsters on Friday. One for my Glock 19 and one for the 43. Today was the first chance I've had to try one. After some adjustment, (I went to the middle setting) I've been wearing the one with the 19 since about 10:00. I'm surprised how easy it is to carry this way. I'm not a tiny guy and it's pretty darn comfortable. I'm wearing it around 12:30/1:00 position. I imagine carrying the 43 this way will be even easier.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
When it's in the holster, maybe not so much, When it's being drawn or reholstered, definitely.

Think about what the muzzle is pointed at when drawing/reholstering AIWB, especially sitting, vs IWB between 3 and 5 o'clock.

quote:

Originally posted by akcopnfbks:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
What's the second rule of gun safety? Never let the muzzle of a gun cover anything you're not willing to destroy.

Does it count as "covering" while it's resting inside the holster? If that's the case, it'll be "covering" one part of the body almost anywhere you carry it.

There is no IWB concealment method that I am aware of that does not include the potential to flag yourself. The process of grasping and drawing the gun at the 3, 4, 5, and 6 o'clock positions, and especially under stress, all carry the inherent possibility and likelihood that you will "cover" some portion of your body. This is true even of non IWB carry methods if you really break them down.

AIWB, in actuality, has no more, and often less risk of covering part of your body.

I would take a look at Dave Spaulding and Travis Haley's videos on the topic. Haley, in particular, really breaks it down logically.

I am on my phone, so I can't embed, but here is Haley's video:

https://youtu.be/r4Pv_YCm-i0

And two from Spaulding:

https://youtu.be/Ve2JvXxNApw
https://youtu.be/3_KtKw58iVM

That looks painful. If I'm going to put a gun in my crotch, I'll pull out my old Thunderwear.

My gut hurts just looking at those pics.

quote:

Originally posted by akcopnfbks:


Does it count as "covering" while it's resting inside the holster? If that's the case, it'll be "covering" one part of the body almost anywhere you carry it.

Not at all. I don't carry anywhere that my weapon's muzzle points at or through my body. That's inside the waistband or out, small of back, ankle, or pocket.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:

Yes, but violation of just one rule will not cause you to shoot yourself. Each rule is a layer of safety. It takes violating at least two, three, sometimes all four. Pay attention to Rule Three (keep your finger off the trigger until the gun is on target) and there won't be a problem. How safe is it when you can't get to your gun when you need it?

It only takes one, once.

Finger off the trigger, snag it while reholstering. Covering the wrong thing becomes immediately apparent.

quote:

Originally posted by akcopnfbks:


Does it count as "covering" while it's resting inside the holster? If that's the case, it'll be "covering" one part of the body almost anywhere you carry it.


Not at all. I don't carry anywhere that my weapon's muzzle points at or through my body. That's inside the waistband or out, small of back, ankle, or pocket.

I usually carry IWB at 3 or 4 o'clock. The muzzle doesn't naturally cover anywhere on my body in that position. Worst case, I could end up with a graze wound to the buttock, outside leg, or if something goes really wrong, take one to the foot.

With appendix carry, if you snag the trigger on re-holstering, you either turn yourself into a eunuch or sever the femoral (and high enough on the femoral that even if you have a tourniquet handy, it's not going to do you any good). That's not an area of my body that I'm comfortable pointing a loaded gun, ever.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:

quote:

Originally posted by akcopnfbks:


Does it count as "covering" while it's resting inside the holster? If that's the case, it'll be "covering" one part of the body almost anywhere you carry it.


Not at all. I don't carry anywhere that my weapon's muzzle points at or through my body. That's inside the waistband or out, small of back, ankle, or pocket.

I usually carry IWB at 3 or 4 o'clock. The muzzle doesn't naturally cover anywhere on my body in that position. Worst case, I could end up with a graze wound to the buttock, outside leg, or if something goes really wrong, take one to the foot.

With appendix carry, if you snag the trigger on re-holstering, you either turn yourself into a eunuch or sever the femoral (and high enough on the femoral that even if you have a tourniquet handy, it's not going to do you any good). That's not an area of my body that I'm comfortable pointing a loaded gun, ever.

I understand. I wouldn't presume to tell anyone else where or what to carry. For me, appendix carry works. It's comfortable, it's faster, and it's easier for me. I am comfortable with the compromise.

If you think you don't, at some point, cover some part of your body with a gun anywhere but maybe on your ankle, you're dreaming. With exceptions for specific body types, there is always going to be some exposure.

Pocket: front of the thigh, knee, foot are all covered.

Any 3/4/5 o'clock position: buttock, outer thigh, rear calf while kneeling.

Small of back: buttock, rear calf while sitting or moving (during draw).

Shoulder: arm, elbow, hand, etc.

Don't believe me? place a cleaning brush on a long cleaning rod and insert from muzzle end (just this once). See how many positions involve the rod striking the body. Just look at all of the Blackhawk Serpa NDs where guys are shooting themselves in the legs and feet. This is a fairly bulky holster system that is held far away from the body. Many of these incidents have even been with the duty version that wears farther from the body.

The greatest risk of body exposure with appendix carry is while seated, since the leg likely falls directly under the pistol. In most other positions, you will see no more, and often less covering of the body. Although anecdotal, as appendix carry has become popular, I have not seen a bunch of stories about people negligently shooting themselves. Certainly there

My experience has been that the people who ramble on about "you'll shoot your junk off" and so forth have never actually done any research on the topic, have not attempted to carry in the appendix position, and ignore obvious evidence refuting their assertions. Like every method of carry, it is not for everybody or every body type. Holster selection matters. Sufficient practice and familiarization is necessary.

Everything in life is about the management of risk. Is the benefit of going 5 MPH faster worth the increased stopping distance or the potential to get a ticket or the increased fuel consumption? Is the convenience of leaving my door unlocked worth the risk of being burglarized? Is it worth traveling light at the risk of being unprepared? And so on...

.[/QUOTE]

You will never have access to your gun if you are in any position other than standing. That holster is a death trap, please reconsider.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. For me AIWB was a learning experience and all about two factors: holster design and positioning of the holster. I tried three holsters before i found one that was comfortable sitting and standing. The one that works is a clone of a JM Custom Kydex AIWB Wing Claw 2.0 for a Glock 17. The combination of a wide design, 2 widely spaced clips, the claw, the foam wedge and the added body length make it stable, concealable and as comfortable as any IWB I've worn. I wear it at 1:30 and drive with it.

I'm 6', 230# & am very stocky. I carry an FNS9-C in it now, but it worked well with a full sized FNS & a G17. I had to work with it for about two weeks to find the sweet spot where didn't dig into my ribs, groin or inside of my thigh, but now that it's there it is very comfortable and easy to draw. I frequently hike before and after work and wear it underneath a light t-shirt.

It's the one on the left.

I'm not sure where you're located, but this is the way to find out if AIWB is for you:

http://www.dfwdefensivetraining.com/about.html

Since Todd passed, Spencer Keepers is the absolute man. I'm not interested in changing my regular mode of carry, but Spence taught me how to teach my students. I ended up taking the class twice and convincing my wife to take it.

Here is a video of her at the end of her day of training:

Sorry, I'm too lazy to imbed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zigCj5OKHpI

And this is what Spencer can do as a not-particularly-skinny guy on the regular:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er0QFIux7M4

I dont personally feel comfortable with an auto AIWB, but have grown accustomed to carrying a snub revolver that way. In my mind, the chances of snagging the trigger to the point of rotating the cylinder and moving the hammer approaches the "nil" catagory.

I also dont quite understand the whole "reholster" thing. If you are training your draw, the gun will be empty and the risk of ND zero. If you draw for real, then draw the damn gun and mean business. The reholster, IMHO, is waaay over rated and for civilian purposes, a non starter. Obviously, I dont consider AIWB to be a method I would attend a 2-day 1000rd class with either.

Just my opinion.