SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  CCW Methods & Issues    Notification of LE Question regarding right to search
Page 1 2 

Moderators: Chris Orndorff, LDD
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Notification of LE Question regarding right to search Login/Join 
Equal Opportunity Mocker
Picture of slabsides45
posted
I generally inform anyhow as a courtesy, and always with both hands firmly planted on the steering wheel and a pleasant demeanor (I watched Chris Rock's instructional video and it helped a ton.). I've never been disarmed (for my safety) during a stop in which I've said I was carrying, but just wonder from a LE standpoint if new regs might change things for some.

I quit my thug life years ago, so I hope this never applies to me in the future, but I saw that recently my home state (MS) had a bill in the legislature that allowed one to get a concealed carrier designation on your DL (versus carrying the additional card, I assume). Got me to wondering...

If pulled over for traffic infraction, and assuming no scent of drugs or alcohol are sensed, does the designation on the DL of being a permit carrier give LE the implied consent to search your vehicle? In our state there is no compulsion to tell LE that you have a firearm (that I'm aware of) unless directly asked. Obviously, if I put it on my license then they will always be informed of my qualification even if they forget to ask. I guess I wonder if that automatically sets me up for the question ("do you have a firearm in your vehicle or on your person?") and then from there the potential to be searched because either they don't believe you or some other scenario. In states that you are obliged to inform, does that automatically open you up to vehicle search? Since you have informed and told the ossifer that you have a firearm, is that the end of what they can pursue down that line of questioning?


________________________________________________

"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving."
-Dr. Adrian Rogers
 
Posts: 5970 | Location: Mogadishu on the Mississippi | Registered: February 26, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
Picture of Flash-LB
posted Hide Post
There's a small matter of probable cause to search.

I've never been pulled over while carrying, but if I was I would never inform the LEO unless I was specifically asked.

Never invite the man into your life.
 
Posts: 6829 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Steve in PA
posted Hide Post
No, a search requires PC. The fact that you are legally carrying does not give LE the ability or authority to search your vehicle.

FYI, I’ve been in LE here in PA for 23+ years.


Steve
"The Marines I have seen around the world have, the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps." Eleanor Roosevelt, 1945
 
Posts: 3341 | Location: Northeast PA | Registered: June 05, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Diablo Blanco
Picture of dking271
posted Hide Post
I am sure they know you have a permit before they even walk up to your window, assuming you are driving a car registered to yourself. Just having a permit is not probable cause to search a vehicle. Do not overthink it.


_________________________
"When a man is denied the right to live the life he believes in, he has no choice but to become an outlaw.” - Nelson Mandela
 
Posts: 1995 | Location: Middle-TN | Registered: November 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
semi-reformed sailor
Picture of MikeinNC
posted Hide Post
When I was policing in NC, I could have done one of three things.
Stop the car w/o calling it in....
Call in the tag over the radio then stop the car
Run the tag in my car’s computer, then stop the car

If the tag was run over the radio,911 would tell me if the owner had a CCW

If the tag was run in the car it would come back and another page would pop up if the owner had a CCW

If I didn’t do either and just stopped the car w/o running anything when I got back to the car I would run them

Troopers typically didn’t call in any traffic stops as their comm center is in Raleigh and they would be on the air constantly.

My department told us to call in all stops- but realized that there were some times it couldn’t be done for whatever reason.

I’ve stopped hundreds of cars over my career, many many had CCW(and NC is a “must tell”) and I never used the positive CCW for a reason to search a car.

If I wanted to search I needed more than there’s a gun in the car......

You are overthinking it.

I was stopped in MS 2 years ago and I handed my DL and CCW to the cop so that he would know I had a gun and so that I didn’t say the magic word “gun” out loud....it tends to freak cops out. MS is not a must tell state....the guy knew what and why I did it...we talked for a few about me being retired cop and he let me go.

There’s a lot of case law regarding searching cars...and it varies by state.....but if a cop wants to search, he’s gonna get in the car most likely...the side of the road is not where theses are discussed or sussed out-that’s what court is for. YOU will never win an argument on the side of the road.



"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.”
― Robert A. Heinlein

“ You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020

 
Posts: 8536 | Location: Temple, Texas! | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted Hide Post
I suspect most cops already know that the legal owners with a CCL aren't the one's they need to worry about.


___________________________
Avoid buying ChiCom/CCP products whenever possible.
 
Posts: 6997 | Location: NE GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Flash-LB:
I've never been pulled over while carrying, but if I was I would never inform the LEO unless I was specifically asked.

Be careful with that. In some states you are required, by law to inform during a traffic stop or any other time you are detained (not arrested, but merely detained) by a LEO. Michigan is one such state. [MCL 28.425f(3)]

Since I figure, during a traffic stop, the cop already knows I have a CPL before he approaches my window, I inform whether I'm carrying or not. ("Good morning/afternoon/evening, officer. I have a Michigan CPL and I am [not] carrying at this time. What would you like me to do?")




"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
"The dominant media is no more ``mainstream`` than leftists are liberals." -- me
 
Posts: 20552 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
Picture of Flash-LB
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
quote:
Originally posted by Flash-LB:
I've never been pulled over while carrying, but if I was I would never inform the LEO unless I was specifically asked.

Be careful with that. In some states you are required, by law to inform during a traffic stop or any other time you are detained (not arrested, but merely detained) by a LEO. Michigan is one such state. [MCL 28.425f(3)]

Since I figure, during a traffic stop, the cop already knows I have a CPL before he approaches my window, I inform whether I'm carrying or not. ("Good morning/afternoon/evening, officer. I have a Michigan CPL and I am [not] carrying at this time. What would you like me to do?")


I'm aware of that, but in Arizona there is no duty to inform.

When traveling, I check out the local laws in Handgunlaw.us.
 
Posts: 6829 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of sourdough44
posted Hide Post
Here’s a related question, in WI one doesn’t have to mention if their a permit holder or carrying to LE on a stop. Is such info tied to a vehicle plate registered to me? I kinda had the feeling it wasn’t connected, but is it linked should an officer ever run my plate?

I know MI requirements & understand there’s nothing wrong with mention as a CC holder. I haven’t been stopped in over 10 years, just wondering how much info is linked to the plate?
 
Posts: 4841 | Location: WI | Registered: February 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of CQB60
posted Hide Post
Amen.
quote:
YOU will never win an argument on the side of the road.


______________________________________________
“Well, your nobody till somebody shoots you”
 
Posts: 12990 | Location: VIrtual | Registered: November 13, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Pyker
posted Hide Post
It varies by State, but in MN there is no way, short of calling the Sheriff of the county where you reside, of knowing whether or not you have a permit. Neither is there a requirement to inform, unless you are specifically asked if you are carrying a pistol, then you must divulge that fact and produce your permit.
 
Posts: 1396 | Location: Lake Country, Minnesota | Registered: September 06, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
I thought that an LE could search a vehicle for no reason other than their personal safety? Seems like the 4th amendment does not apply to your vehicle.
 
Posts: 2426 | Location: Greenville, SC | Registered: January 30, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
Picture of Flash-LB
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Blume9mm:
I thought that an LE could search a vehicle for no reason other than their personal safety? Seems like the 4th amendment does not apply to your vehicle.


Nope, they have to have probable cause.
 
Posts: 6829 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
posting without pants
Picture of KevinCW
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Blume9mm:
I thought that an LE could search a vehicle for no reason other than their personal safety? Seems like the 4th amendment does not apply to your vehicle.


No, and the perpetuation of this nonsense on the internet feeds this bullshit.





Strive to live your life so when you wake up in the morning and your feet hit the floor, the devil says "Oh crap, he's up."
 
Posts: 32848 | Location: St. Louis MO | Registered: February 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
posting without pants
Picture of KevinCW
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
I suspect most cops already know that the legal owners with a CCL aren't the one's they need to worry about.


Sometimes. Sometimes not.

I ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS!!!! prefer if a person informs me. I consider it a courtesy and I instantly assume that if they are going to tell me they have a weapon on their person, they are much less inclined to use it on me.

100 to 1 I would feel MORE comfortable with someone informing me, rather than letting me "discover" it on my own.





Strive to live your life so when you wake up in the morning and your feet hit the floor, the devil says "Oh crap, he's up."
 
Posts: 32848 | Location: St. Louis MO | Registered: February 15, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Cynic
Picture of charlie12
posted Hide Post
Well I have a Louisiana CHP and I have to inform the LEO I'm carrying if stopped. I would do it anyway if it wasn't a law.
I've been lucky I guess I've been driving 54 years and only been stopped 3 times. And all those times were when I was running a paper route in the middle of the night.
They were all fishing since I was out there at a good time for DWI's.


_______________________________________________________
And no, junior not being able to hold still for 5 seconds is not a disability.



 
Posts: 12698 | Location: Pride, Louisiana | Registered: August 14, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
If I’m pulled over while carrying I hand the officer my driver’s license and CCW license at the same time.

I know it’s probably not tacticool; however like Kevin said, I’d rather not have the officer find out by other means.

Figure the less stress involved the better.
 
Posts: 172 | Location: St. Augustine, FL | Registered: April 03, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
Picture of Flash-LB
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Underdog:
If I’m pulled over while carrying I hand the officer my driver’s license and CCW license at the same time.

I know it’s probably not tacticool; however like Kevin said, I’d rather not have the officer find out by other means.

Figure the less stress involved the better.


If you want to see a LEO stress, just say the word "Gun" to them.
 
Posts: 6829 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Flash-LB:
quote:
Originally posted by Underdog:
If I’m pulled over while carrying I hand the officer my driver’s license and CCW license at the same time.

I know it’s probably not tacticool; however like Kevin said, I’d rather not have the officer find out by other means.

Figure the less stress involved the better.


If you want to see a LEO stress, just say the word "Gun" to them.


Where did I write anything about saying “gun”?
 
Posts: 172 | Location: St. Augustine, FL | Registered: April 03, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Flash-LB:
quote:
Originally posted by Blume9mm:
I thought that an LE could search a vehicle for no reason other than their personal safety? Seems like the 4th amendment does not apply to your vehicle.


Nope, they have to have probable cause.


A quick caveat: LEOs can search the area immediately within the driver's reach if they have reasonable suspicion that the driver may be armed or hiding contraband (furtive movements prior to the stop, reaching under the seat, etc.). In this type of search, an officer cannot search beyond the driver's area of reach. Officers can also conduct a Terry frisk of the driver based on reasonable suspicion for the aforementioned officer safety reasons.

Standard vehicles have a lesser expectation of privacy than a residence or business because vehicles are mobile, and by definition, not lived in.

Probable cause is required for a complete search of the vehicle. Vehicles can also be searched on the basis of a valid K-9 sniff, which is considered probable cause.
 
Posts: 831 | Location: The Little 'ol South | Registered: September 25, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  
 

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  CCW Methods & Issues    Notification of LE Question regarding right to search

© SIGforum 2021