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Picture of Edselbutler
posted
Greetings- My wife enrolled us in a Concealed Carry Club. Pay $60 a month and covers us both. The idea is that if we ever have to use a weapon in self defense, call a number and am put in contact with a local attorney who will provide immediate representation up to a certain dollar amount.
Also get newsletters emailed regularly, access to online classes and a Carry oriented magazine.
My wife feels that in these times, this membership is vital to our defense and safety. I feel if either of us were in need of legal defense, we could just find a local attorney ourselves, and this Membership is unnecessary.
Any thoughts on this friends? Thanks -Edsel
 
Posts: 204 | Registered: June 12, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted Hide Post
Lots of threads on the subject if you do a search. You may even find several if it's the one it sounds like (has a magazine).
Search the name and the subject, self defense insurance, etc.


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Posts: 7197 | Location: NE GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
Picture of Flash-LB
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And until you do, I lump Legal gun defense insurance up there with extended warranties on appliances. In other words, a waste of money.

The only way you'd need it is if you were in a bad shoot and if you were there's a good chance the insurance wouldn't cover you as it's illegal in most states to insure people who commit illegal acts. Look and see if your state is one of those before buying.

But that's just me.
 
Posts: 7250 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of T.Webb
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Like everything else, the devil is in the details. Get a copy of your contract and have your attorney look at the fine print. Then advise you accordingly!


************************************************
"Tonight, we are a country awakened to danger and called to defend freedom. Our grief has turned to anger and anger to resolution. Whether we bring our enemies to justice or bring justice to our enemies, justice will be done". {George W. Bush, Post 9/11}



 
Posts: 842 | Location: Long Island, N.Y. / Stephentown, N.Y. | Registered: March 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Edselbutler
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Thank you all. -Edsel
 
Posts: 204 | Registered: June 12, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted Hide Post
In spite of what they'd like you to think, they are NOT insurance.
Most remind me of the expression, "all hat, no cattle".


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Avoid buying ChiCom/CCP products whenever possible.
 
Posts: 7197 | Location: NE GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As 220-9er says, many of them are legal reserve funds and not insurance. That being said, some like USCCA are reputable and worth having.

(If you plan to hire an attorney for criminal defense in a homicide case, you should expect to be prepared to have a retainer equal to at least 16 hours of the USAO fee structure: https://www.justice.gov/usao-d...ile/1305941/download)
 
Posts: 1505 | Registered: April 24, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of fnforme
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I'm a defense attorney and I have handled many self-defense cases.

One day one of the bigger companies that offers this service was hosted by my local range and I asked them if they had ever represented any of their customers in court. They never had. Do you want your 2:00 AM call to them to be the first time they ever actually process a claim?

There are a myriad of reasons why I think these services are useless. From what I remember, there is a relatively low cap on expert witness fees. Also, I can't help but wonder if they will defer to the attorney's discretion on which experts to retain or whether they have their own at negotiated rates. I've won multiple self-defense cases with a ballistics expert out of Indiana. I want my guy because we gel, not someone cheaper because they're local or anything like that.

Clean self-defense cases are exceedingly rare. When I say clean, what I mean is usually it's hood shit as opposed to one completely innocent party being attacked by a felon. The internet gun forum concept that you need a lawyer if you engage in a clean self-defense shooting is overstated. Maybe this is different in other parts of the country.

Finally, I think people overestimate the price of an attorney. Paying several hundred a year for an insurance premium on a very low probability event only makes sense if the cost of loss is excessive. Criminal defense attorneys quote very high rates but a good starting negotiating point is a quarter to a third of the price you're quoted. Seriously.
 
Posts: 3414 | Location: Miami, FL | Registered: April 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I Deal In Lead
Picture of Flash-LB
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by fnforme:
I'm a defense attorney and I have handled many self-defense cases.

One day one of the bigger companies that offers this service was hosted by my local range and I asked them if they had ever represented any of their customers in court. They never had. Do you want your 2:00 AM call to them to be the first time they ever actually process a claim?

There are a myriad of reasons why I think these services are useless. From what I remember, there is a relatively low cap on expert witness fees. Also, I can't help but wonder if they will defer to the attorney's discretion on which experts to retain or whether they have their own at negotiated rates. I've won multiple self-defense cases with a ballistics expert out of Indiana. I want my guy because we gel, not someone cheaper because they're local or anything like that.

Clean self-defense cases are exceedingly rare. When I say clean, what I mean is usually it's hood shit as opposed to one completely innocent party being attacked by a felon. The internet gun forum concept that you need a lawyer if you engage in a clean self-defense shooting is overstated. Maybe this is different in other parts of the country.

Finally, I think people overestimate the price of an attorney. Paying several hundred a year for an insurance premium on a very low probability event only makes sense if the cost of loss is excessive. Criminal defense attorneys quote very high rates but a good starting negotiating point is a quarter to a third of the price you're quoted. Seriously.


We finally got an expert to chime in with what I've been saying for years.

Thanks fnforme.
 
Posts: 7250 | Location: Gilbert Arizona | Registered: March 21, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by fnforme:
I'm a defense attorney and I have handled many self-defense cases.

One day one of the bigger companies that offers this service was hosted by my local range and I asked them if they had ever represented any of their customers in court. They never had. Do you want your 2:00 AM call to them to be the first time they ever actually process a claim?

There are a myriad of reasons why I think these services are useless. From what I remember, there is a relatively low cap on expert witness fees. Also, I can't help but wonder if they will defer to the attorney's discretion on which experts to retain or whether they have their own at negotiated rates. I've won multiple self-defense cases with a ballistics expert out of Indiana. I want my guy because we gel, not someone cheaper because they're local or anything like that.

Clean self-defense cases are exceedingly rare. When I say clean, what I mean is usually it's hood shit as opposed to one completely innocent party being attacked by a felon. The internet gun forum concept that you need a lawyer if you engage in a clean self-defense shooting is overstated. Maybe this is different in other parts of the country.

Finally, I think people overestimate the price of an attorney. Paying several hundred a year for an insurance premium on a very low probability event only makes sense if the cost of loss is excessive. Criminal defense attorneys quote very high rates but a good starting negotiating point is a quarter to a third of the price you're quoted. Seriously.




***Good points here. I started practicing law in 1981 - prosecutor , then indigent criminal defense, sat a a judge pro tem many times and finally moved to the civil side. I have always thought this type of insurance was illusory .... read the fine print. Many exclusions , limits and disclaimers. Do you really think they will retain a top firearms attorney to help you ?


Taught many concealed weapons classes and use of deadly force classes and made it clear to all that IF you carry be sure to have the name of an experienced firearm defense attorney in your wallet and known to your family...That way IF you're ever involved in a self defense shooting , you're prepared. And of course the ONLY thing you say is " officer I will fully cooperate with this investigation as soon as my attorney arrives"

I would also recommend classes taught by Massad Ayoob. He is excellent. I have taken two of his 4-5 day classes.
You will shoot "stress fire" drills - hundreds of rounds and the classroom portion covers use of deadly force issues and concealed carry. You will also get to see Massad shoot --- he is amazing.....be prepared , be safe....
 
Posts: 167 | Registered: September 02, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Still finding my way
Picture of Ryanp225
posted Hide Post
You just bought the "extended warranty" from a phone solicitor.
I'd cancel it and save your money.
 
Posts: 9438 | Registered: January 04, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted Hide Post
I read this gun based forum mostly nowadays but have read many others over the years.
I have yet to read where anyone has used one or even needed one, in spite of all the hype.
Do a search for cases they have handled that aren't from the organization itself to see how it went. You'll have a hard time finding those cases.
I'll bet extended warranties on appliances and other products have more value in the real world, and that ain't saying much.


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Posts: 7197 | Location: NE GA | Registered: August 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Junior Member
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I live in Fort Worth and would like to find an attorney who could help me if I'm involved in a self-defense incident. How does one go about finding a qualified attorney for these kind of matters?
 
Posts: 2 | Registered: November 10, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Laugh or Die
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I have USCCA, but I found this article very interesting if you're still looking/curious.


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Posts: 9952 | Location: NC | Registered: May 17, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of mikeyspizza
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quote:
Originally posted by Traxless:
I live in Fort Worth and would like to find an attorney who could help me if I'm involved in a self-defense incident. How does one go about finding a qualified attorney for these kind of matters?
Gun groups in your state might have lists of gun-friendly attorneys, ours do.
 
Posts: 3637 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: August 16, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Self-defense insurance needs to be broken-down into polices for 'Free States' and 'Not-So-Free' States.

Those of us living behind enemy lines, where virtually the entire justice system will bear its weight upon you should you dare to defend yourself, especially with a firearm, will want some level of coverage. How much of course depends on your economic means and your daily risk.

I've found USCCA to be a very good resource along with their policy.
 
Posts: 11927 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Doin' what I can
with what I got
Picture of Rob Decker
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by corsair:
Self-defense insurance needs to be broken-down into polices for 'Free States' and 'Not-So-Free' States.

Those of us living behind enemy lines, where virtually the entire justice system will bear its weight upon you should you dare to defend yourself, especially with a firearm, will want some level of coverage. How much of course depends on your economic means and your daily risk.

I've found USCCA to be a very good resource along with their policy.


This heavily influenced my decision to become a member. I'm not a giant fan of their marketing, but the organization itself (and what's taught in the classes) seems to be a cut above NRA. Their training materials are certainly more up to date than the NRA's stuff.

With all of that, the legal defense stuff seemed cheap peace of mind.


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Death smiles at us all. Be sure you smile back.
 
Posts: 5480 | Location: Greater KCMO | Registered: May 11, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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As a retired LEO with some experience with OIS investigation, I'd say you are much better off if you establish a relationship with a competent criminal defense attorney in your area. That way in the unlikely event you are involved in a shooting, that isn't the first time you talk to them.
 
Posts: 634 | Location: NH | Registered: December 28, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sw4566:
As a retired LEO with some experience with OIS investigation, I'd say you are much better off if you establish a relationship with a competent criminal defense attorney in your area. That way in the unlikely event you are involved in a shooting, that isn't the first time you talk to them.

You're not wrong, among the benefits of USCCA, is you can appoint/choose your own defense attorney and have the policy cover those expenses. Having a legal representative who's local and familiar with the prosecutors in the area and the idiosyncrasies of the local legal environment is half the battle.
 
Posts: 11927 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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