Hound Dog, I saw a set of internal schematics of the -D which had several large blank areas spread throughout the ship to allow for expansion. I never heard that the -D was supposed to be a troop transport. I do know that, in light of the ever present threat of the Borg, as well as the Dominion/Cardassian alliance, Starfleet decreed that subsequent ship designs be structured more toward fighting capability and less about exploration/taking families and civilians on long voyages.

There are also interior schematics of the Enterprise D that show large water tanks for 'Cetacean Ops' - meaning, they have dolphin and whale crew members. There is a LOT of stuff in the background materials that never make it into the shows.

The original Enterprise (no bloody -A, -B, -C, OR -D) (sorry, I have to say that every time - this is a quote from Scotty in the TNG episode "Relics"), the saucer section was supposed to be able to separate. I recall reading a Trek novel back in the 90s set in the TOS era, where the ship's drive section wasn't ready, so they just took the saucer section on a short trip on impulse power (I believe to Earth's moon and back). Most of the Trek ships from TNG onward had 'Captains' Yachts' - you can see the outline of them on the bottom of the saucer section. They were supposed to detach and cruise away. From what I recall, the only time we saw this on screen was in the (horrible) movie ST: Insurrection. They had a similar yacht on Voyager, but they never used/showed it.

Naturally, they do a lot of stuff in the novels they can't or won't do on screen. It's easier to write about it than do it (the reason they only used the saucer separate (IIRC) twice on TNG was that it was so expensive to shoot, and they literally re-used the footage for both episodes (one was in the pilot episode; the second was in the Season 3/4 cliffhanger Best of Both Worlds I/II episodes with the Borg when they abduct Picard). Also, it tended to slow down the episode's pacing, as it took a lot of screen-time to separate and then re-join the sections.

I never read/owned any of the 'technical manuals,' but again, a LOT of stuff in those never made it on screen. There were supposed to be dozens, if not hundreds of different classes ships (typical of most navies), but we only saw a handful of them on-screen. In TOS, they only showed the Constitution Class, so they could re-use the Enterprise model. In "The Doomsday Machine," they even gave the Constellation the hull number 1017, so they could re-use the 1701's hull numbers. I recall reading somewhere they actually used an off-the-shelf "Enterprise" model to stand in for Constellation. . .

I used to think this was unrealistic, as (for example) the US Navy in WWII had dozens of different ship classes in any fleet. There could be 2-3 different kinds of carriers (Essex, Yorktown, Lexington, Independence), 2-3 types of battleships (Iowa, South Dakota, North Carolina, California), 3-4 types of cruisers (heavy and light), 3-4 types of destroyers. . . But, today, it has made Trek more 'realistic,' as you will have a Nimitz class carrier, a Ticonderoga cruiser or two, and the rest are Arleigh Burke destroyers (I am simplifying, before the Navy guys come in and correct me ).

In TNG, they only showed the Galaxy Class (Enterprise, Musashi), the Oberth Class (first seen in Search for Spock) Miranda Class (first seen in Wrath of Khan as USS Reliant), and the Excelsior Class (seen in The Voyage Home). The Enterprise C was unusual, in that (again, IIRC) it was only seen in one episode - "Yesterday's Enterprise." For a show that ran 7 full seasons, they definitely skimped on ship models.

Once DS9 came along, they had to do major fleet battles, so they created a bunch more on-screen ship classes, but still had a LOT of Excelsior and Miranda class ships. I never saw a Constitution Class ship after the TOS movies, as they probably didn't want people to think it was the Enterprise. . . They even used an off-the-shelf 1/48 F-14 Tomcat model to 'kitbash' (create a new ship by combining pieces/parts of others) a new ship.

So, somebody else mentioned they did have 'heavy' Dreadnought class ships in the Tech Manuals. I presume these were more heavily armed and had less scientific capability than the Enterprise(s). We just never saw them on-screen. I always considered it to be a great 'what could have been,' had they made an effort to include more different ship types. TOS was notoriously under-funded, and it seems TNG wasn't much better. Even the movies were skimpy, in that we never really saw a real diversity of ship types on the big screen.


Also, I HATED the 'bring the wife and kids along' mentality. Even when TNG was first on TV, I thought it criminally irresponsible to bring CHILDREN on a warship. How many dozens of times did the Enterprise D almost get destroyed? How many other ships did we see get utterly obliterated with the loss of all hands? Heck, they even took the families along to fight the Borg at Wolf 359. It's like, "hey, we are facing our biggest battle against our greatest adversary - many of you won't be coming home - be sure to hug your wife and kids on the way to your battle station. . ." Even with ships that didn't have separating saucers (Sisco's Miranda-class ship as seen in the DS9 pilot episode), they could have put the families on shuttles, or had a fleet auxiliary ship (a tanker, transport, or other non-warship) beam all the families on board. For a 'kid-friendly' show, this aspect was VERY un-friendly.

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:
There are also interior schematics of the Enterprise D that show large water tanks for 'Cetacean Ops' - meaning, they have dolphin and whale crew members. There is a LOT of stuff in the background materials that never make it into the shows.

I actually own the original blueprints for the -D and know about the Cetacean Ops tanks. But what I was mentioning were actual blank areas within the hull of the ship spread across different decks that weren't purposed at all.

Season 2 started today. Pretty decent episode, although typical leaps of logic (how bad are the sensors on a Klingon D-7 that they can’t detect two ships nearby engaged in battle?). Who knew Dr. M’Benga and Nurse Chapel were so badass? Not digging the new emotional Spock. Definitely don’t care for Carol Kane as the new engineering office. Still seems like a ditzy character that she usually plays, and not sure whether she’s doing a weird accent, or her real voice has really gotten that bad, but it’s very offputting.

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Ok, I’m confused I thought the D was Picardy ship or is it the E?

In Star Trek: The Next Generation, the ship was Enterprise D (the one in my graphics above). Once they started making movies, they needed better sets. The sets they had for tv shows did not do well on 'the big screen,' as there was far greater resolution on the movie film cameras, allowing the audience to see the flaws, phillips head screws on the bridge consoles, etc. That is apparently why the movie ST7: Generations had the bridge so dark. It was done to hide the flaws. They then destroyed Enterprise D (sorry, spoilers ) (this is why you never never NEVER let the ship's counselor steer the boat) so they could debut the Enterprise E in ST: 8/9/10. This was a MUCH cooler ship, IMO, and the sets were built for movies from the beginning.

Of course, the Enterprise D sets were also dated for another reason. They joked that it was Carnival Cruise Lines In Space, based on the sets (themselves designed in the late 80s).

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If I wanted to read good ST canon novels where to begin? What to avoid? I love good sci fi. Bad sci fi makes me rethink my love. How about SW?

I used to read Trek novels in the early 1990s, but I haven't touched on in 30 years. I do recall, however, two outstanding ones.

Vendetta: THIS ONE would have made a great movie, IMO. It had the Borg AND the Planet Killer from TOS. I really enjoyed it.

https://www.amazon.com/Vendett...t%2Caps%2C797&sr=8-1

I also remember liking The Devil's Heart. I honestly don't remember the plot, except this relic (on cover) is coveted by various races, including some Klingons.

https://www.amazon.com/Devils-...ration/dp/0671794264

There are dozens more, but I only remember reading the novelization of the episode "Relics" besides the two cited above. This is where Scotty showed up on the Enterprise D. The novelizations followed the plots of the episodes (duh), but added a lot of nifty, but ultimately irrelevant backstory.

funny, had not heard the Carnival Cruise comments before,,


did read something not long ago the Jeffries did not like the D because he felt the bridge was not a hotel lobby, (paraphrased a bit, don't have the link of what i read)

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:
Also, I HATED the 'bring the wife and kids along' mentality. Even when TNG was first on TV, I thought it criminally irresponsible to bring CHILDREN on a warship. How many dozens of times did the Enterprise D almost get destroyed? How many other ships did we see get utterly obliterated with the loss of all hands? Heck, they even took the families along to fight the Borg at Wolf 359. It's like, "hey, we are facing our biggest battle against our greatest adversary - many of you won't be coming home - be sure to hug your wife and kids on the way to your battle station. . ." Even with ships that didn't have separating saucers (Sisco's Miranda-class ship as seen in the DS9 pilot episode), they could have put the families on shuttles, or had a fleet auxiliary ship (a tanker, transport, or other non-warship) beam all the families on board. For a 'kid-friendly' show, this aspect was VERY un-friendly.

The original purpose of that I've mentioned before was back when David Gerrold and D.C. Fontana were in charge is that Farpoint was the absolute farthest that the Federation had explored and the Enterprise wasn't coming back for 20 years. It would be an opposite of Voyager where everything they needed was on the Enterprise along with the crew's immediate family. Then in typical fashion, Gene Roddenberry changed his mind again.

OTOY has some fantastic work they've done with the Roddenberry Archive with some archival videos along with being able to explore every Enterprise bridge on their website. Here's a video on some the making of TNG:



And a trip through every Enterprise:



The whole YouTube channel is worth digging through. Another Star Trek Documentary worth looking at is Chaos On The Bridge which goes through a lot of the early turmoil on TNG. It should be free for everyone, but I can't embedd the link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfYfeWEgnxU