Cool episode tonight…getting better and better.

A nice homage to the Balance of Terror episode from the OG…complete with a Mr Scott voice.

Pretty much a remake of Balance of Terror, played out a little differently . I believe that some of the dialogue is exactly the same, with the new shaved head sides navigator taking the role of Lt. Stiles in the original episode. That said, Capt. Pike is pretty much a pussy and an idiot (although it’s on par with him the entire season, as he’s made a lot of questionable decisions). Pretty much inferior to both the new James T Kirk and the TOS Kirk. In the end, though, I’m not sure what what the point of the episode was (other than fan service). It isn’t clear that anything actually changed regarding Pike’s future.

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:
Pretty much a remake of Balance of Terror, played out a little differently . I believe that some of the dialogue is exactly the same, with the new shaved head sides navigator taking the role of Lt. Stiles in the original episode. That said, Capt. Pike is pretty much a pussy and an idiot (although it’s on par with him the entire season, as he’s made a lot of questionable decisions). Pretty much inferior to both the new James T Kirk and the TOS Kirk. In the end, though, I’m not sure what what the point of the episode was (other than fan service). It isn’t clear that anything actually changed regarding Pike’s future.

It solidified the fact that he needs to “let it happen”.

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:

In the end, though, I’m not sure what what the point of the episode was (other than fan service). It isn’t clear that anything actually changed regarding Pike’s future.

There's no doubt - it was MAJOR fan service. I am usually critical of such blatant attempts, but I will hold my tongue this time. I thought it was an amazing episode.

The entire point of the episode, and a recurring theme in the series so far, is Pike's hesitance to accept the future. He early on rationalizes that 'my sacrifice saves lives,' so it seems he (at least on an intellectual level) understands the importance of his sacrifice. However, coming face to face with one of the kids who will be one of the victims he couldn't save, he thinks about 'gaming the system.' Basically, tell everybody to stay home that day and dodge his fate. THIS is why 'future!Pike' shows up to set him straight. It's a "A Wonderful Life" thing - showing him his future; this time with him in it instead of the other way around as was done with George Bailey. Seeing how everything will be worse by him saving himself, he finally accepts his fate both intellectually and on an emotional level, and resigns himself to the future.



I was kinda confused as to how they portrayed Pike. He seemed to have done everything by the book, and this is what caused the Romulans to declare war. Kind of like the first two episodes of Disco. There, Capt Georgeo did everything by the book when first encountering the Klingons, when the BETTER response would have been to attack the Klingons as a show of force. In both cases, the "Starfleet way" of talking it out encouraged aggression, when a bloody nose to both the Klingons and Romulans would have been the proper response.

I haven't watched that original episode in decades. I will have to re-watch it to see how Kirk's reaction was so much different than Pike's.

I know it means nothing, but why are Romulans in a pre-TOS episode of Star Trek set after the Romulan War? I know it doesn't matter with these idiots, but this is almost a stupid as the writers of Obi-Wan Kenobi learning after they were hired that Kenobi knew Anakin was Darth Vader.

quote:

Originally posted by DanH:
I know it means nothing, but why are Romulans in a pre-TOS episode of Star Trek set after the Romulan War? I know it doesn't matter with these idiots, but this is almost a stupid as the writers of Obi-Wan Kenobi learning after they were hired that Kenobi knew Anakin was Darth Vader.

It's a time-travel episode. Capt Pike, mentally if not physically, traveled 7 years into the future into the TOS Season 1 Episode 14, Balance of Terror. However, Pike was in command of the Enterprise; not Kirk. James T. Kirk did show up, but in a separate ship.

So, yeah, the episode started before the TOS era, but it very quickly transitioned into the show's future, which was the TOS 'present.' To quote Doctor Who, “People assume that time is a strict progression from cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey stuff.”

It all makes sense in context. Nobody aside from Pike knows that the Romulans look just like the Vulcans. It is assumed that Pike keeps this intel to himself, as he would otherwise risk messing with the future (the revelation that Romulans look like Vulcans is key to Kirk's reaction to them (based heavily on Spock's advice that if the Romulans resemble the rage-filled Vulcans of an earlier era, any show of 'mercy' would be interpreted as 'weakness.')) He also would not make ANY report to Starfleet of his experiences, as they would likely demand he disclose the intel on the Romulans (and I would not blame them). So, in order to keep from jacking with the future (the entire point of his time travel), he would keep what he saw to himself. Therefore, 7 years later, Kirk would take the Enterprise to the Neutral Zone, and events would play out as before (our past, Pike's future, the TOS present) (as I said, 'Timey-Wimey'). . .

I generally don't like time travel episodes of Trek, as it has become (IMO, of course) an overused trope. However, this was a good one, and it didn't really affect or change what has been canonically established.* I thought the writing was really good on this one. They were careful to NOT mess with canon or the established timeline.


*Now, Disco DID create a canon paradox. I am re-watching the TOS episode now to catch up, and everybody is amazed by the 'invisibility cloak' the Romulans use. However, Disco (set before Strange New Worlds and before TOS) indicate the Klingons developed and used cloaking devices in the Federation/Klingon war years ago. Nobody mentions the term 'Cloaking Device,' indicating it is different than the Klingon cloak. There are differences, as the Klingons use their cloaks for hit-and-run attacks, whereas both this episode and TOS indicate the Romulans are nearly blind while using it (their cloak affects their sensors, allowing Enterprise to sneak up on the cloaked Romulans, whereas this would never have worked on the Klingons). . .

I'm impressed. I might have to give them a little more credit, but they've got years of Discovery and Picard trash to make up for before I'll watch any Kurtzman Trek.

Pike's balls dropped about the time he yelled at Ortegas in the last episode. I agree though, he's been a whiny pussy so far. Too, touchy feely and what are they trying to do bring in the food network viewers with this mega kitchen in his quarters?

I said it pages ago, way too much back talk on the bridge. If it ain’t yes sir no sir aye sir then shut the fuck up and do your job. Captain doesn’t need some fucking ensign having a tantrum on their watch. I know it’s not the Navy but come on, how about a little decorum? Middle of the battle isn’t the place for your junior officers to toss in some strategic input.

Still, one of the best episodes. Plus his quarters onboard are nicer than my house, so there’s that. lol

I don't know, it might actually be the Navy now with all their Social Justice programs, high suicide rates, running into everything at sea, and fiddle fucking around while you let an LHA burn itself to death.

Lol, no even today the OOD isn’t taking shit from the helmsman. Everybody has a job and stays in their lane. This is a classic Hollywood version of how they think bridge operations should be in a world where everyone is equal and everyone’s input matters. In the real world this would work just as well as you think it would, poorly.

Maybe it is just Star Trek though. They are always in combat but they really are just a big Jacque Cousteau boat exploring space. It’s a weird dichotomy. I’m the Greenpeace Sea Explorer but we have photon torpedoes and phasers just in case the whales are hostile so nobody really knows their role. Explorer or space SEAL?

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:

Maybe it is just Star Trek though. They are always in combat but they really are just a big Jacque Cousteau boat exploring space. It’s a weird dichotomy. I’m the Greenpeace Sea Explorer but we have photon torpedoes and phasers just in case the whales are hostile so nobody really knows their role. Explorer or space SEAL?

TrekNerds on discussion groups I am part of often argue that "Starfleet isn't the military." I argue back that even in WWII, the US Coast Guard never had battleships, carriers, or cruisers.

The Enterprise (any version) is the heaviest-armed vessel in the fleet, capable of going toe-to-toe with any combatant, including ships of races like the Klingons, Romulans, and Dominion (who everybody KNOWS are 'space navies').

Trek pretends to do the 'peaceful explorers' bit, but even in 12 episodes of SNW, it is obvious the Big E is a WARSHIP.

True. It is a warship in any conceivable way except they tend to get boarded a lot. A lot. As often as they are fighting intruders I’m thinking adding space Marines with crew served weapons wouldn’t be a bad idea. Pretty easy to defend a passageway with a machine gun nest.

I know it’s TV but for goodness sake.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: pedropcola,

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
... I’m thinking adding space Marines with crew served weapons wouldn’t be a bad idea.

Unfortunately, the MACOs were disbanded after the forming of the Federation. No active military on Star Fleet vessels!

I don’t read canon from ST or SW so I don’t know that stuff. Does that mean there are Federation warships as well? Something that would make the E look bad?

The Dreadnought Class is a dedicated warship. USS Vengeance made the E looked pretty bad, but that's Jar Jar Abrams' Trek.

Well, according to canon, the Defiant class is the first dedicated warship developed by Starfleet to combat the Borg. I have no idea what, if any, prior ship classes were actually classified as warships. I know that the Enterprise-E is a warship.

quote:

Originally posted by Orguss:
Well, according to canon, the Defiant class is the first dedicated warship developed by Starfleet to combat the Borg. I have no idea what, if any, prior ship classes were actually classified as warships. I know that the Enterprise-E is a warship.

The Defiant was built to fight the Borg, after Starfleet got its collective butt handed to it at Wolf 359. It was so ridiculously over-powered that it almost (literally) tore itself apart. It had practically zero 'scientific research' capabilities, so, yes, it was a dedicated warship.

As far as I know (NOT including JJ's 'Space Voyage' movies), she was the only 'warship' in Starfleet.

Every Enterprise was a first-rate "jack-of-all-trades/master of all" kind of ship. It had top of the line offensive and defensive systems, along with unmatched scientific and medical facilities. There was little they could not do.

I heard that the Enterprise D was so huge (they called her the 'Big D' for a reason) because they had accommodation space for thousands of soldiers, though I never saw this in the show or movies. Not sure if they did this in any of the novels. I saw a graphic somewhere that had the entire Enterprise D crew standing on the top of the saucer. It seemed like an awfully small crew, compared to how big the ship was.

Ah, what the heck, here it is.


The Enterprise D was massive compared to the USS Enterprise (no bloody -A, -B, -C, OR -D).



I have been watching Trek my entire life, starting with TOS in the 1970s. I never understood how people could argue that Starfleet "isn't military, but a scientific/exploration organization." With all the fighting they do, it just doesn't make sense. Starfleet IS the military.

Ok, I’m confused I thought the D was Picardy ship or is it the E?

If I wanted to read good ST canon novels where to begin? What to avoid? I love good sci fi. Bad sci fi makes me rethink my love. How about SW?

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Ok, I’m confused I thought the D was Picardy ship or is it the E?

In Star Trek: The Next Generation, the ship was Enterprise D (the one in my graphics above). Once they started making movies, they needed better sets. The sets they had for tv shows did not do well on 'the big screen,' as there was far greater resolution on the movie film cameras, allowing the audience to see the flaws, phillips head screws on the bridge consoles, etc. That is apparently why the movie ST7: Generations had the bridge so dark. It was done to hide the flaws. They then destroyed Enterprise D (sorry, spoilers ) (this is why you never never NEVER let the ship's counselor steer the boat) so they could debut the Enterprise E in ST: 8/9/10. This was a MUCH cooler ship, IMO, and the sets were built for movies from the beginning.

Of course, the Enterprise D sets were also dated for another reason. They joked that it was Carnival Cruise Lines In Space, based on the sets (themselves designed in the late 80s).

quote:

If I wanted to read good ST canon novels where to begin? What to avoid? I love good sci fi. Bad sci fi makes me rethink my love. How about SW?

I used to read Trek novels in the early 1990s, but I haven't touched on in 30 years. I do recall, however, two outstanding ones.

Vendetta: THIS ONE would have made a great movie, IMO. It had the Borg AND the Planet Killer from TOS. I really enjoyed it.

https://www.amazon.com/Vendett...t%2Caps%2C797&sr=8-1

I also remember liking The Devil's Heart. I honestly don't remember the plot, except this relic (on cover) is coveted by various races, including some Klingons.

https://www.amazon.com/Devils-...ration/dp/0671794264

There are dozens more, but I only remember reading the novelization of the episode "Relics" besides the two cited above. This is where Scotty showed up on the Enterprise D. The novelizations followed the plots of the episodes (duh), but added a lot of nifty, but ultimately irrelevant backstory.