They made a big mistake, they should have killed off Kay! Hate her character.

Beside playing the long suffering girlfriend/wife, Kay doesn't add much to the plot.

If there's no Kay, there will also be no Anthony and Mary, and that's not terrible. GF3 will turn out different, and better. Probably...

***SPOILER AHEAD*** (For the nine people on this planet who haven't yet seen the film or read the book)


Kay represents the outsider, separate from centuries-old ethnic traditions. Recall the ending:






The corresponding chapter of the book (close to the ending, but not quite there) is identical except for minor details:

Connie had recovered from her hysteria. Her voice held a deadly venom. “Why do you think he was always so cold to me? Why do you think he kept Carlo here on the mall? All the time he knew he was going to kill my husband. But he didn’t dare while my father was alive. My father would have stopped him. He knew that. He was just waiting. And then he stood Godfather to our child just to throw us off the track. The coldhearted bastard. You think you know your husband? Do you know how many men he had killed with my Carlo? Just read the papers. Barzini and Tattaglia and the others. My brother had them killed!’                

She had worked herself into hysteria again. She tried to spit in Michael’s face but she had no saliva.                

“Get her home and get her a doctor,” Michael said. The two guards immediately grabbed Connie’s arms and pulled her out of the house.                

Kay was still shocked, still horrified. She said to her husband, “What made her say all those things, Michael, what makes her believe that?”                

Michael shrugged. “She’s hysterical.”                

Kay looked into his eyes. “Michael, it’s not true, please say it’s not true.”                

Michael shook his head wearily. “Of course it’s not. Just believe me, this one time I’m letting you ask about my affairs, and I’m giving you an answer. It is not true.” He had never been more convincing. He looked directly into her eyes. He was using all the mutual trust they had built up in their married life to make her believe him. And she could not doubt any longer. She smiled at him ruefully and came into his arms for a kiss.                

“We both need a drink,” she said. She went into the kitchen for ice and while there heard the front door open. She went out of the kitchen and saw Clemenza, Neri and Rocco Lampone come in with the bodyguards. Michael had his back to her, but she moved so that she could see him in profile. At that moment Clemenza addressed her husband, greeting him formally

“Don Michael,” Clemenza said.                

Kay could see how Michael stood to receive their homage. He reminded her of statues in Rome, statues of those Roman emperors of antiquity, who, by divine right, held the power of life and death over their fellow men. One hand was on his hip, the profile of his face showed a cold proud power, his body was carelessly, arrogantly at ease, weight resting on one foot slightly behind the other. The caporegimes stood before him. In that moment Kay knew that everything Connie had accused Michael of was true. She went back into the kitchen and wept.



The only way for Mario Puzo to have that kind of ending is with an outsider in the family, and a great ending it is for the film.

.

I know why she is there, I just hate her character. Instead of the daughter getting shot it should have been Kay!

quote:

Originally posted by p08:
I know why she is there...

If you say so. I can see the perspective I provided, including posting a portion of the source novel, was a waste of my time.

quote:

Instead of the daughter getting shot it should have been Kay!

That wasn't The Godfather. That wasn't even The Godfather: Part II. Furthermore, Kay wasn't Michael Corleone's flesh and blood, and she was no longer even his wife at the time of that murder. What kind of dramatic impact on the story do you think that might have had?

But, you've got it all figured out. You can wait here for the "Yeah!" and "+1" stuff you seem to be hoping for, agreeing with your broad perspective of this cinematic classic.

You can hate her character, but even without having read the book and watched it as many times as Para has, I can see why her character is the way it is: to throw into sharp relief who Michael Corleone was, and who he became by the end of the first film. If his wife was just another woman from that life, then you don’t get the effect you get from the scene transcribed above. That’s a powerful scene, and it’s powerful because it’s innocent, ignorant Kay looking at the man Corleone is and finally seeing him for the first time.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Kay represents the outsider, separate from centuries-old ethnic traditions.

Indeed. As the blue blooded schoolteacher daughter of a Protestant minster, Kay's background was sharply contrasted against Michael and the Corleone family. This contrast represented Michael's desire to distance himself from the family's criminal activity. Recall Michael's quote during the wedding scene: "That's my family Kay - it's not me". Or Sonny's revelation: "Hey, whaddya gonna do, nice college boy, eh? Didn't want to get mixed up in the Family business, huh?" In the end however, Michael discovers it is impossible to separate family from the life. Kay's character was very important to this overall theme of the film. A character I would argue wasn't intended to be likable.

Hate to be the “+1” guy, but Para is right.

quote:

PARA said:
Kay represents the outsider, separate from centuries-old ethnic traditions.

This is the scene I was thinking of when I read your comments. Her telling Michael that she had an abortion … and this (paraphrasing) “this Sicilian thing that has been going on for 2000 years must end”

Between Freddy betraying him, and the abortion with Kay, Michael changed. He became even colder and darker than he ever was; even becoming suspicious of Tom Hagen.

Michael to Tom: “Are you going to go come with me on these things I have to do or what? Because if not, you can take your wife, your family, your mistress and move them all to Las Vegas.”

I choose to believe that if Apollonia had not been murdered, Michael’s life would have taken a different path. His brother would not have betrayed him and Michael would have lived a similar timeline of loving respect from those around him; not fear and terror.

quote:

Originally posted by hjs157:

Indeed. As the blue blooded schoolteacher daughter of a Protestant minster, Kay's background was sharply contrasted against Michael and the Corleone family. This contrast represented Michael's desire to distance himself from the family's criminal activity. Recall Michael's quote during the wedding scene: "That's my family Kay - it's not me". Or Sonny's revelation: "Hey, whaddya gonna do, nice college boy, eh? Didn't want to get mixed up in the Family business, huh?" In the end however, Michael discovers it is impossible to separate family from the life. Kay's character was very important to this overall theme of the film. A character I would argue wasn't intended to be likable.

Yup, you nailed it. We were never given any reason to like her, by design. Her character is instrumental to the film regardless.

Kay is the worst. She's also important to the plot.

Hagen should have had her "taken care of" when she showed up to the compound unannounced.

How many times do oranges appear in The Godfather?

We may have had a thread on this before, but, if we did, I don't recall it. I thought I would ask here rather than start a new thread.

I just started watching it again today and was surprised to see Tessio (Abe Vigoda) pick up an orange at Connie's wedding reception (appx 8:50 into the movie). I had never noticed this orange before.

quote:

I just started watching it again today and was surprised to see Tessio (Abe Vigoda) pick up an orange at Connie's wedding reception (appx 8:50 into the movie). I had never noticed this orange before.

I missed that one. And as we all know, Tessio sees his demise soon after.

Oranges obviously symbolize death in the films - off the top of my head:

Godfather is buying oranges when he is gunned down.

Godfather is eating an orange when he dies with his grandson.

Michael is eating an orange in the final scene of Godfather 3.

There are probably many more, but those are the ones I can think of without Googling.

I may go back to see if there are oranges present when Apollonia is killed.

ETA -

I went back and watched the clip.

When Michael asks Calo about the luggage there is an orange light on above him and the flame from the car is orange...maybe that is a stretch? But maybe not, I don't believe that anything we see in these movies was ever by chance.

You decide.

Tom, can you get me off the hook? For old time's sake?

Can't do it, Sally.

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:

Godfather is buying oranges when he is gunned down.

Yes, that is the most prominent scene with oranges. I just jumped forward and watched the attempted assassination scene that killed Appolonia, but didn't see any.

quote:

Originally posted by YellowJacket:
Tom, can you get me off the hook? For old time's sake?

Can't do it, Sally.

In law school, my legal ethics class used film clips to illustrate various ethical issues for attorneys. This scene was one of them.

As consigliere, Tom Hagen represented the Corleones. If Hagen had agreed to Tessio's request and interceded for him with Michael, it could technically be construed as an ethical violation as Tom had a duty to only act in the family's best interests.

The boss is the boss.

I always enjoyed the dynamics and implications of Kay and Michael's relationship.

Michael represented the traditionalist, his family came from S.Europe, his background full of culture, tradition, and character.

Kay was the liberal from New Hampshire, a PK, the WASPy girl from New England, wooden in character, vanilla in culture, ebulliently naive.

Both had their foundations and boundaries, Kay provided Michael a release from his family and the business early on. As his father's life was threatened and his brother was murdered, the pangs of responsibility pushed him to evolve beyond what he wanted and Kay was merely along for the ride.