New Shogun series

April 26, 2024, 07:15 AM

0-0

New Shogun series

Veeper, you are spot on.

Am not familiar with Blackthorne and Mariko’s actors and found them both miscast and hard to watch.

I read the book twice but that was 40 years ago.

Found Blackthorne portrayal stiff and sketchy. His japanese education choppy and rushed from nothing to darn good. His skills were past coloquial in a very rigid, formal and structured society but with big deep holes. Weird overall.

Really disliked the actress doing Mariko’s character. She was too “empowered” and little Samurai but when she declared herself she was being samurai. Her constant thousand yards stare was exasperating to me. Her eyes constantly focused at a “wrong” to me, distance.
Found little or no traditional japanese in her. That completely ruined it for me. She lacked all the subtlety i was expecting. Maybe it was the script, but she was too stiff in the wrong way.

Will rewatchthe original series soon just for kicks. I miss Rhys-Davis interactions the most.

0-0

April 26, 2024, 09:17 AM

mojojojo

quote:
Originally posted by 0-0:
Really disliked the actress doing Mariko’s character. She was too “empowered” and little Samurai but when she declared herself she was being samurai. Her constant thousand yards stare was exasperating to me. Her eyes constantly focused at a “wrong” to me, distance.
Found little or no traditional japanese in her. That completely ruined it for me. She lacked all the subtlety i was expecting. Maybe it was the script, but she was too stiff in the wrong way.

I agree. I'm sure she's a fine actress but she was either completely miscast for the role of Mariko or she mis-acted it. I have read the book numerous times and am currently listening to it on my daily commute.

Mariko's character is samurai but her demeanor is quiet, professional, reserved (except for some interactions with her husband). In this mini-series she comes across as more woke "girl power" that the character in the book. She struck me as not traditional Japanese and certainly not Mariko.

April 27, 2024, 11:49 PM

Rightwire

I had a business trip all last week. Six hours of flight time in each direction (1 connection) so I took my old copy of the book. It's thick and tattered. So old that in my backpack it managed to split in two along the spine, so now I have 2 halves of the book. Honestly, made reading easier as it is a VERY thick book.

Didn't quite make it to the half way point. I also missed the last episode as the hotel did not get that channel. Ah well...

April 30, 2024, 01:50 PM

AUTiger89

I'm on episode 6, and I was totally wrong.

This series is a masterpiece.

quote:
Originally posted by AUTiger89:
From the looks of the trailer, yes, they're going to screw it up.

April 30, 2024, 02:45 PM

daikyu

It was awesome. I loved every minute of it.

quote:
Originally posted by AUTiger89:
I'm on episode 6, and I was totally wrong.

This series is a masterpiece.

quote:
Originally posted by AUTiger89:
From the looks of the trailer, yes, they're going to screw it up.

May 04, 2024, 05:20 PM

AUTiger89

Okay, I finished it today. I completely agree with Veeper's assessment. For context, I saw the original miniseries when it aired, and read the book in the '90s. Through the first half of episode 8, it was really well done. The attack on Osaka was confusing and seemed like an afterthought, as did the rest of episodes 8 through 10.

In the original miniseries, there was clear chemistry between Blackthorne and Mariko, while there was none in this series. Rodrigo was greatly underused. The guy who played Blackthorne was horribly miscast.

The thing I didn't like about the book or both miniseries was that there was no closure. Toronaga didn't complete his quest to become Shogun. But it seemed the original miniseries seemed to handle it better. The original miniseries also handled Blackthorne's learning of Japanese culture much better. Now that I think about it, Blackthorne's character seemed like an afterthought.

The book is so long, they could have broken it into seasons to milk their license to the material.

All that having been said, it was beautifully made.

quote:
Originally posted by AUTiger89:
I'm on episode 6, and I was totally wrong.

This series is a masterpiece.

quote:
Originally posted by AUTiger89:
From the looks of the trailer, yes, they're going to screw it up.

January 09, 2025, 04:32 PM

RogueJSK

I finally got around to watching this, and I agree with Veeper's assessment for the most part.

Shogun is well acted (by most players), well written (in many parts but not all), and extremely well framed and shot (always). It's emotionally gripping, exciting in parts, tension-filled, as well as being occasionally laugh-out-loud funny.

But it's not without its flaws. I'm a little less critical of Blackthorn's actor than some of the others here, but it's still clear that he not in the same league as many of the other actors and actresses in the show. And I agree that the script/plot is uneven from time to time, ranging from great to occasionally less so.

However, some of the criticism about it feeling rushed and unfinished and without a satisfying conclusion is likely because - unlike the 80s Chamberlain version - this isn't a miniseries! Rather, it's a multi-season TV show. Season 1 isn't the whole thing. Season 2 is being worked on currently. A further Season 3 is planned.

And not that you can always put stock in awards show wins as a reflection of actual quality, but I can say that I do agree with Shogun's recent wins at the Golden Globes as Best TV Drama, along with taking Best Actor (Hiryuki Sanada as Tokigawa), Best Supporting Actor (Tadanobu Asano as Yabushiba), and Best Actress (Anna Sawai as Mariko). Those were the three standout actors/actresses in the show by a mile.

January 09, 2025, 05:06 PM

jhe888

quote:
Originally posted by mojojojo:
quote:
Originally posted by 0-0:
Really disliked the actress doing Mariko’s character. She was too “empowered” and little Samurai but when she declared herself she was being samurai. Her constant thousand yards stare was exasperating to me. Her eyes constantly focused at a “wrong” to me, distance.
Found little or no traditional japanese in her. That completely ruined it for me. She lacked all the subtlety i was expecting. Maybe it was the script, but she was too stiff in the wrong way.

I agree. I'm sure she's a fine actress but she was either completely miscast for the role of Mariko or she mis-acted it. I have read the book numerous times and am currently listening to it on my daily commute.

Mariko's character is samurai but her demeanor is quiet, professional, reserved (except for some interactions with her husband). In this mini-series she comes across as more woke "girl power" that the character in the book. She struck me as not traditional Japanese and certainly not Mariko.

I think you can blame a modern sensibility in the script and direction more than the acting.

January 09, 2025, 05:53 PM

YellowJacket

I am thinking about starting this show. I know nothing of the story, have never heard of any books out might have been based on.

I tried to watch episode 1 last night and it looked pretty good but the heavy Japanese language and subtitles might prove too much for me. I just get fatigued from my bad viewing habits. Does it stay heavily in Japanese throughout? Of course that’s all well and good if it does, it just might not be the show for me.

January 09, 2025, 06:51 PM

Prefontaine

quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
I finally got around to watching this, and I agree with Veeper's assessment for the most part.

Shogun is well acted (by most players), well written (in many parts but not all), and extremely well framed and shot (always). It's emotionally gripping, exciting in parts, tension-filled, as well as being occasionally laugh-out-loud funny.

But it's not without its flaws. I'm a little less critical of Blackthorn's actor than some of the others here, but it's still clear that he not in the same league as many of the other actors and actresses in the show. And I agree that the script/plot is uneven from time to time, ranging from great to occasionally less so.

However, some of the criticism about it feeling rushed and unfinished and without a satisfying conclusion is likely because - unlike the 80s Chamberlain version - this isn't a miniseries! Rather, it's a multi-season TV show. Season 1 isn't the whole thing. Season 2 is being worked on currently. A further Season 3 is planned.

And not that you can always put stock in awards show wins as a reflection of actual quality, but I can say that I do agree with Shogun's recent wins at the Golden Globes as Best TV Drama, along with taking Best Actor (Hiryuki Sanada as Tokigawa), Best Supporting Actor (Tadanobu Asano as Yabushiba), and Best Actress (Anna Sawai as Mariko). Those were the three standout actors/actresses in the show by a mile.

I don’t have the app it’s on. If they have a free trial I’d love to watch it and cancel. Otherwise, due to the Globes, Season 1 should get released on disc at some point this year. I’ll rent it and watch it without compression.

January 09, 2025, 09:10 PM

9mmepiphany

quote:
Originally posted by Prefontaine:
I don’t have the app it’s on.

It's on HBO

January 09, 2025, 09:14 PM

9mmepiphany

quote:
Originally posted by YellowJacket:
I am thinking about starting this show. I know nothing of the story, have never heard of any books out might have been based on.

I tried to watch episode 1 last night and it looked pretty good but the heavy Japanese language and subtitles might prove too much for me. I just get fatigued from my bad viewing habits. Does it stay heavily in Japanese throughout? Of course that’s all well and good if it does, it just might not be the show for me.

If you're asking if the Japanese actors suddenly start speaking English, they don't

It is rather important to read the subtitles otherwise you'll miss the differences between what is being said and how it is translated

January 09, 2025, 10:15 PM

RogueJSK

quote:
Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:
quote:
Originally posted by Prefontaine:
I don’t have the app it’s on.

It's on HBO

No, it's on Hulu.

January 09, 2025, 10:15 PM

Prefontaine

quote:
Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:
quote:
Originally posted by Prefontaine:
I don’t have the app it’s on.

It's on HBO

No it isn’t. It’s on FX/HULU and Disney.

January 09, 2025, 10:31 PM

RogueJSK

quote:
Originally posted by YellowJacket:
Does it stay heavily in Japanese throughout?

Yes. I'd say ~70% of the dialogue is in Japanese with subtitles.

January 10, 2025, 03:31 PM

AUTiger89

Wow, I had no idea! That's awesome!

quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:
However, some of the criticism about it feeling rushed and unfinished and without a satisfying conclusion is likely because - unlike the 80s Chamberlain version - this isn't a miniseries! Rather, it's a multi-season TV show. Season 1 isn't the whole thing. Season 2 is being worked on currently. A further Season 3 is planned.

January 10, 2025, 03:46 PM

9mmepiphany

quote:
Originally posted by Prefontaine:
quote:
Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:
quote:
Originally posted by Prefontaine:
I don’t have the app it’s on.

It's on HBO

No it isn’t. It’s on FX/HULU and Disney.

You're right...sorry brain fart

I knew i saw it and I don't have Disney or Hulu. I guess I watch it on FX