Several favorites mentioned, and a few that aren’t. FWIW, my favorite John Wayne movie remains The Cowboys, I just like it, and I suppose it helps that I’ve gotten to know one of the (now) men who played one of “the cowboys.”

Two others not mentioned that I like for their authenticity are Will Penny, and especially Conagher; I put that one in my top 5.

I guess I’ll add: Both versions of Monte Walsh are fun to watch, and the bronc ride at the end of the Lee Marvin movie is legendary. I can’t put either into my list of favorites because the Jack Schaefer book, “Monte Walsh,” may well be my favorite western novel of all, and both movies short-change the book.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Yes, Appaloosa is a good old-fashioned western, except that I found Renee Zelwegger really, REALLY annoying in this film.

quote:

Originally posted by tjcj:
Para, Two Peckinpahs but not the Wild Bunch?

The politics- the overt comparison to US involvement in Vietnam. There are parts of the film I like but as I said, I don't like clear political messages in my westerns.

William Wyler intended for his political allegory to come through in The Big Country but he failed in this regard, as illustrated by the fact that President Eisenhower loved this film, and he was one of the people Wyler was shooting at. So, this film makes the cut for me.

I am really confused about this. I saw The Wild Bunch when it first came out.It was playing at a Lowe's theater in downtown Washington, D.C. I then went to see it in the Maryland suburbs a few weeks later. I have since seen it at the Kennedy Center, a couple of drive in movies and have owned it on both VHS and DVD. I think it is one of the best movies I have ever seen. I have never heard of or thought about any political message or comparisons to the U.S. involvement in Vietnam. I am not disputing this or trying to start an argument. I just have never even thought of that. If it would not be out of line or considered an unreasonable request, could you please explain it to me? I mean no offense and I am not trying to upset anyone, I just do not see this.

https://americanaejournal.hu/vol7no2/haddad

https://emanuellevy.com/review...s-a-western-movie-2/

In addition to the above, let me point out one thing about the allegorical nature of the film-

General Mapache and Angel are both Mexicans. Mapache takes Angel captive.

Mapache = North Vietnam

Angel = South Vietnam.

The Wild Bunch go in at the end of the film in an attempt to rescue Angel. Angel has his throat cut by Mapache and then there takes place a slaughter the likes of which had never been seen before in a theatrical film. You have to take into account when the film was produced and when it was released- at the height of the Vietnam War. If you first saw the film in, say, 1978, none of this would click, but if you saw it when it was released, you might have viewed it in the light of current events.

I saw it when it first came out. I was in high school and skipped school and rode a bus down town to see it. After reading your links, I can see your point. I guess I just enjoyed it and never gave it any deeper thought. Some of the movies you have discussed and your thoughts about them have definitely given me a different perspective on film. Thank you for replying and giving me something to think about. I will get the DVD out and watch it again soon.

One has to be careful about applying or interpreting meanings not apparent on the surface of film and literature, There is a certain type of critic and a certain type of viewer who claim hidden meanings to things which are merely superficial.

Here's a good example- the out of focus shot of Frank Sinatra in The Manchurian Candidate. Per John Frankenheimer, it was simply a mistake that was not discovered until after the scene was shot, and it was impractical to reshoot it, so he left it in, but some film critics bloviated about how the poor focus was symbolic of the character's psychological state. No, it was simply an out of focus shot, but Frankenheimer said he encountered critics for years afterwards who commented on the symbolism.



It's as I said in my first post- there is an unavoidable pedantry associated with film criticism.

And this is how we get Corbucci and Acid Westerns put forth as prime examples of the most American of all film genres. Spaghetti Westerns are enjoyable in certain ways, but they can never be representative of the American West. Spaghetti Westerns and Paella (Spanish) Westerns are best described as pastiche. Notice the odd (from an American perspective) and seemingly out of place style of humor in the Terence Hill Spaghettis- My Name is Nobody and They Call Me Trinity. That stuff is not even in the same universe as the American Western.

I wonder how Italians would like it if I pasted a big handlebar mustache on my face and went around yelling "AAAAAY! WHASSA MATTER YOU!! MAMA MIA!! THASS-A SOME SPICY MEATBALL-UH!!"

Well, thats what they did with their Westerns. The people who will disagree with me are legion, but those films mock the genre.

To me, the oddest of the foreign Westerns are from Monte Hellman:
The Shooting.
Ride in The Whirlwind.
China 9, Liberty 37.

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
The Shooting.
Ride in The Whirlwind.
China 9, Liberty 37.

The Shooting - written by the man-hater Carole Eastman under a pseudonym. Her contempt of men shines through like a beacon.

Ride in the Whirlwind- shot back-to-back with The Shooting, written by Jack Nicholson, whose script was influenced by his friendship with Carole Eastman, the man-hater.

China 9, Liberty 37- a Spaghetti Western

Of the three Hellman westerns, I only enjoyed China 9, Liberty 37 for the casting of Warren Oates, IMHO an underrated actor. Another unusual bit of casting was Brit actress Jenny Agutter.

Some of my favorites:

Once Upon A Time In The West
Wyatt Earp
The Professionals
True Grit (2010)
Jeremiah Johnson
The Magnificent Seven (1960)
Open Range

I don't get the love for Unforgiven.

quote:

Originally posted by AUTiger89:
I don't get the love for Unforgiven.

For me, the casting is insane, just top notch. Gene Hackman stole this film. Richard Harris- just excellent. Same with Morgan Freeman. And of course Eastwood, perhaps his last great performance. Also with the support players and bit parts, everyone was great. Excellent script and storytelling, it is a more complicated tale of morality than a typical western. And I think it is Eastwood's greatest directional effort. For me, Eastwood's best western film.

And I don't know if you'd consider There Will Be Blood to be a western, but it takes place in the West and is a masterpiece.

There Will Be Blood is a Horror film.

Lots of great films already listed. I've always like Fort Apache by John Ford. Yes, it's a bit campy but it's the first of his 3 cavalry films, and with Henry Fonda and John Wayne, what's not to like?

These are favorites of mine that I haven't seen mentioned yet.

Garden of Evil w/Gary Cooper, Susan Hayward, Richard Widmark

Bend of the River w/James Stewart

Gunfight at O K Coral 1957 version w/Burt Lancaster

Lots of great westers mentioned here.

Personal favorite has always been "The Sons of Katie Elder".

Never makes any "top" lists, but I like it, and think it is under rated.

One of my favorite western soundtracks is from The Sons of Katie Elder. Another favorite is from Duel at Diablo.

One thing to clarify and somebody feel free to correct me... the Sergio Leon / Clint westerns were not dubbed over from Spanish or what ever but from what I understand... he actually filmed with no audio and then the sound including dialogue was added, dubbed over, in the studio. this is why they don't quite sound right... this includes Once Upon a Time in the West.

After reading Para's list ... dern if I don't need to do some streaming....

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:
Two others not mentioned that I like for their authenticity are Will Penny, and especially Conagher; I put that one in my top 5.

Will Penny is one of the westerns I feel portrays the old West in a realistic fashion, and that is intended as a compliment.

Conagher is just about my favorite TV western ever and also comes close to a realistic portrayal of the old West. Note the mutual derision/respect between Conagher and Smoke Parnell (James Gammon) when Conagher ambushes Parnell and his gang in their camp. After Conagher passes out (and after he has killed one of their gang just a minute before), the kid is worried that Parnell is going to kill Conagher, but that's not what happens. I'll leave it at that if you've never seen the movie.

The scene is this clip- I just love it. In Louis L'Amour's book, Conagher goes farther into the story of being attacked by the Apaches. I wish the screenplay had left in all of that, but even without it, Conagher portrays the ideal cowboy.



Now that we're talking about TV westerns, you may ask where's Lonesome Dove in all of this? I don't think anyone who loves the western film genre can speak poorly about this miniseries and Duvall's performance as Augustus McCrae is one of the finest in all of television- in any genre.

The problem, though, is the popularity of Lonesome Dove and it's attendant saturation airings. I've seen this miniseries so many times, I have to go a very, very long time without seeing it in order for it to hold my interest. On top of that, Larry McMurtry, for the sake of dramatic effect, is mercilessly cruel to some of his characters, and it's hard watching Gus McCrae die in that bed.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Conagher is just about my favorite TV western ever and also comes close to a realistic portrayal of the old West. Note the mutual derision/respect between Conagher and Smoke Parnell (James Gammon) when Conagher ambushes Parnell and his gang in their camp. After Conagher passes out (and after he has killed one of their gang just a minute before), the kid is worried that Parnell is going to kill Conagher, but that's not what happens. I'll leave it at that if you've never seen the movie.

“Makes a man wonder what he did with his summer wages.” That line always makes me smile. I’ve got an old friend who buckaroo’d all over the Great Basin. He said that to me 40 years ago, and that’s why the line from Conagher brings a smile to my face.

Another Sam Elliott TV movie worth your time:
The Quick and The Dead.
You don't see it shown much.