Watched a repeat episode of this show.

And this seems to be true...






In this episode, Amy finally sees Sheldon's favorite film - Raiders - and expresses her enjoyment of the film in a typically idiosyncratic exchange:
"It was good. I enjoyed it, ......"
She then confesses her appreciation of the film, aside from the "glaring story problem" that "Indiana Jones plays no role in the outcome of the story. If he weren't in the film, it would turn out exactly the same... If he weren't in the movie, the Nazis would still have found the Arks, taken it to the island, opened it up, and all died, just like they did."

This is indeed a big letdown after you think about it!

But as Amy so adroitly points out, in Raiders, Indy achieves precisely nothing, even if he does do it rather spectacularly. Had he not interfered, the Nazis would still have been vanquished by their natural enemy - God - as they would have simply found the Ark, opened it, and had their faces melted off. The only time Indy comes close to making any kind of impact is when he discovers the correct place for the head-piece and subsequently finds the Well Of Souls, but even then the Nazis suddenly appear within minutes, having presumably recalculated and discovered their initial error (without spending too long actually looking for the Well Of Souls presumably, since it would only be a few inches under the surface after a couple of thousand years.) Would anything have turned out differently if Indy hadn't even showed up at all? The Nazis would definitely have found the head-piece, and taken it from Marion, who was a hopeless, but high-functioning alcoholic, and they would have opened it - probably on the island where they planned to test its powers, as opposed to under Hitler's nose, unfortunately. So, Indy wasted his time...and ours too when you think about it!

Except....The plane would have flown directly to Germany had it not been for Indy and Marion blowing it up.

but neither Indy NOR the Nazis knew that the Ark couldn't be operated like a radio. They didn't know that God would melt the faces of everyone who opened it (or were unworthy). So, in a meta-film way, yes, Indy and the Nazis are irrelevant, but for the story logic of the movie, we can't know that.

the characters were operating on the premise that there was a chance that the Ark could be manipulated as a weapon and that anyone ol' Joe off the street could take it for a spin around the block.

Barring it being operated as a weapon (or risk melting Nazi faces), it would still have been a propaganda prop that could be used.

If you want to complain about story issues, ask why the the Afrika Korps Nazis were in British-controlled Egypt in 1936, prior to WW2 in 1939 OR the Afrika Korps...while using MP38/40 Submachineguns or Panzerfausts. It is a big fat anachronism.

Or how Indy made it to the island while riding a submerged submarine.

Or how they made it off an island housing a Nazi submarine base unless you buy into the idea that there were only 30+ Nazis working at a submarine base and they all were attending the Nazi Roast, er, Opening of the Ark.

quote:

Originally posted by Echtermetzger:

Or how Indy made it to the island while riding a submerged submarine.

Big Bang Theory actually mentions this - there was one episode where they mention a theater showing an extended cut (with 23 seconds of restored 'lost' footage) "completely resolves the submarine paradox." Or something to that effect. I think it was the one where the group got in line late and got bumped out of the theater, while Wil Wheaton got inside, causing Sheldon to steal the film.

In reality (assuming a German U-boat in the Med in 1936 - not likely at all, since (IIRC) the first U-boats entered the Med during WWII), those subs spent the vast majority of their time on the surface. So, the sub would have submerged until out of visual range of the merchant ship, so as to hide their destination. Then, they would have surfaced. Problem is, during the hours this would have taken, Indy would have either lost his grip or drowned (they showed the periscope up, implying Indy lashed his whip to the periscope and was towed behind it). Anybody who ever has been towed through the water can attest that it's VERY hard to breath, as the body is naturally pulled downward into the water. Presuming, by some miracle, the sub had its periscope up during the ENTIRE underwater transit (not likely, as sub commanders only used the periscope sparingly), the sub would have surfaced. Then, Indy would have had to hide on the deck of the sub (probably under the 'cigarette deck' - the wide round space at the end of the conning tower, that wasn't enlarged like shown in the movie until well into the war when more AA guns were needed) for the entire transit to the 'secret base.' All without being seen.

So, yeah, not possible.

And I don't believe the idea is original to BBT, but that's neither here nor there.

So what you're saying, Echtermetzger, is that Indian Jones saved Hitler.

Not digging everyone talking bad about Dr. Jones here.
A little respect, eh fellas?

If Indy hadn't been there then Marion probably would have been taken out by the Nazi when they retrieve the medallion and then Shia Labeouf wouldn't have been born. And that can only be a good thing.

Ken

The Nazis were digging in the wrong place. How did they find the Ark?

quote:

Originally posted by KenS:
...then Shia Labeouf wouldn't have been born. And that can only be a good thing.

Ken

Damn! Thinking like that makes me wish Indy and Marcus had both gotten lost in his own museum.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
The Nazis were digging in the wrong place. How did they find the Ark?

Indy led them right to it. Inconspicuously digging on the top of a hill with a bunch of local helpers...

Seems they would've found it anyway. Marion was about to give up the medallion in the bar, a hot poker to the face will do that. They were only digging in the wrong place because they only had half of it. So all Indy did was delay the inevitable.

quote:

Originally posted by terma-nator:
Watched a repeat episode of this show.

And this seems to be true...

...If he weren't in the film, it would turn out exactly the same... If he weren't in the movie, the Nazis would still have found the Ark, taken it to the island, opened it up, and all died, just like they did."

This is indeed a big letdown after you think about it!

But as Amy so adroitly points out, in Raiders, Indy achieves precisely nothing, even if he does do it rather spectacularly. Had he not interfered, the Nazis would still have been vanquished by their natural enemy - God - as they would have simply found the Ark, opened it, and had their faces melted off. The only time Indy comes close to making any kind of impact is when he discovers the correct place for the head-piece and subsequently finds the Well Of Souls, but even then the Nazis suddenly appear within minutes, having presumably recalculated and discovered their initial error...

Wrong.

Belloch sees Indy's crew digging on the ridge away from the camp and reports it. It wasn't a happy accident that the Nazis did some extra math shortly after Jones did.

1) They only had the front part of the medallion.

2) They had NO WAY of knowing the actual length of the staff.

3) If Belloch wasn't in the right place at the right time, Jones would have made it out with the Ark.

Furthermore, there's NO WAY the movie could have turned out like it did WITHOUT Jones.

E) Jones prevented them from being able to find the Well of Souls by being at Marion's bar.

F) Jones prevented the plane from taking off.

6) The Big Bang Theory is absolute shit.

Yepper

Without Dr. Jones, we would not have had "Top Men" working on the Ark all this time. Who knows what wonders of modern technology we would now be living without.

quote:

So what you're saying, Echtermetzger, is that Indian Jones saved Hitler.

Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.

And since Indy is a Steven Spielberg creation, Steven Spielberg saved Hitler, letting all those millions die just so he could make Shindler's List and Saving Private Ryan.

Anyhoo, like others said, he Nazi's didn't "re-calculate" the their dig site, they were dead wrong. The headpiece of the staff had two sides, and Toht only had one side burned into his hand. Belloq only realizes something is off when he sees people (Indy, Sallah, etc.) digging in spot that he hadn't designated. Had Indy not been digging in the right spot and been noticed by Belloq, not Ark.

The fact that they only had half the medallion and the incorrect sized staff is irrelevant to the original argument


With Indy they only get one half of the medallion and dig in the wrong place, but find it anyway because they see him digging and get the ark

Without indy they get the actual medallion from Marion, never dig in the wrong place and get the ark


The outcome is the same with or without Indy


They find the right place. They get the ark

The path traveled is different, but the result is the same

With Indy, they get the ark

Without Indy, they get the ark

quote:

Originally posted by g8rforester:

1) They only had the front part of the medallion.

2) They had NO WAY of knowing the actual length of the staff.

3) If Belloch wasn't in the right place at the right time, Jones would have made it out with the Ark.

Furthermore, there's NO WAY the movie could have turned out like it did WITHOUT Jones.

E) Jones prevented them from being able to find the Well of Souls by being at Marion's bar.

F) Jones prevented the plane from taking off.

6) The Big Bang Theory is absolute shit.

Okay, Mostly #6.