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Wanting to buy a bolt gun for semi long range shooting. Max of 500 yards. Considering the Ruger Gunsite Scout Im .223... thoughts on something else of this rifle are appreciated. Comments on decent glass as well. Thank you as always! NRA Training Counselor NRA Benefactor Member | ||
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Whats your budget? For me, a good 500 yard rifle is a Ruger American in whatever model suits you. For glass, A 4x12 Leupold should do nicely. The scout type concept rifle (to me anyway) is a 300 yard gun, for a more tactical type of use. End of Earth: 2 Miles Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles | |||
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| Green grass and high tides  |
It really depends on a ton of factors. 500 yds is quite a distance when you really think about it. I know many will think otherwise. But 5 football fields is a hella of a long ways. I own a bunch of them. I think the All American hunting cartridge is a good one. 7mm Rem. mag. Also the .30 cal of your choice is always a winner. Even the .243 is a great choice. That is to name just a few. I personally would never choose the .223 for a bolt action rifle. A Quality 4.5-14x40 scope would be a good choice as well. "Practice like you want to play in the game" | |||
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A couple of months ago I bought a Mossberg MVP patrol rife. I like the idea that I can use my AR-15 mags with it. It is a fun bolt action but I think 500 yards is pushing it with this particular model. Living the Dream | |||
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I’d get a tikka t3x lite in 308 and an SWFA 3-9 mil/mil scope. | |||
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Budget please. It's a shame that youth is wasted on the young --- Mark Twain Anyone who is not a liberal by age 20 has no heart; anyone who is not a conservative by age 40 has no brain---Winston Churchill | |||
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$1000 bucks? NRA Training Counselor NRA Benefactor Member | |||
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Rifle only? | |||
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Tikka t3x lite 308 with an SWFA fixed 6x or 10x scope. | |||
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Does your "max of 500 yards" mean you will be shooting at 500 yards all the time, or more likely, will you be shooting mainly at 100-300 yards, with some targets out towards 500 yards? Will this rifle be used for hunting? And if so, will game be any larger than varmints (i.e. prairie dogs through coyotes)? Or will you be punching holes in paper or ringing steel targets. What rifles & calibers have you shot previously, and what is your experience with these rifles? Do you hand load or will you rely on factory ammo? If you are set on a Ruger, I think you will like the American Rifle or the Hawkeye better than the Scout. | |||
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The guy behind the guy |
I would challenge your whole idea of gun and cartridge. I don't really think of the scout guns when I think of a bolt action for target shooting or hunting. The scout concept is a very specialized idea (that I personally think is way outdated by new guns and cartridges like a 300 blk AR for example), and I don't associate a ranch rifle/scout set up as a bolt action target/hunting gun. Also, I have several 5.56 guns setup for distance shooting. I have a 20" bull barrel AR that can hit a gong at 700 reliably. However, it's just a paper puncher at that distance. Also, the wind plays hell with you at that distance. 500 is a little easier, but still not really 5.56 territory imo. Can you hit 500 yards with 5.56, yes of course. But after shooting plenty at 500 yards, I just don't even bother with 5.56 at that distance anymore. 6.5 Creedmor and 7.62x51 are just so much better suited for the task. The Ruger Gunsite Scout is approximately $900. Honestly, it's a "meh" gun imo. If you're dead set on a scout concept, have at it, but otherwise get a true bolt action gun for 500 yards. I would highly recommend a Bergara B14-HMR in either 6.5 Creedmor or .308. It will only run you $50 more than the Ruger and is vastly superior. Also, it's based on the Remington 700 action, so you can upgrade it easily if you get into the distance thing and want to get a new trigger or stock, etc. For scopes, I'm assuming you're new to shooting at distance? If so, save yourself a bunch of mental math and "what power is my scope on" and get yourself a first focal plane scope. When you're new to bullet drop and wind drift, FFP scopes just make everything so much easier. I could use my second focal plane scopes fine, but once I tried an FFP, I switched them all out. No way someone can be faster with a second focal plane. Plus I've had plenty of math mistakes and been off when hunting. No more do I have that problem. keep your dope card rubber banded to the stock and you'll never off if you know your range. Vortex makes some great ones and are what I use. For a budget conscious scope the Diamondback FFP scopes will set you back $350 to $400 depending on the magnification you select. I have two of these on .22 setups and they are great. I have not used them past 300 yards, but I think they will work on a budget. If you can, I would go up to the Viper PST Gen II FFP scopes, but they will cost you around $900 but are much clearer and I like the turrets better. The 20" bull barrel AR I mentioned has a Viper PST Gen II FFP 6-24 on it and I love it! | |||
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Wow. Thank you for this post and the others before it.. I was trying to stay away from .308 but maybe I am over thinking it. NRA Training Counselor NRA Benefactor Member | |||
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I guess if you want to stay away from one of the best all around rounds available then sure, avoid the 308. To each their own. Cheap factory Ammo, tons of high quality factory Ammo choices, easy to reload, long barrel life, good for plunking and hunting. | |||
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Well. I wanted to do it because the majority of rifles I have are in 5.56/.223 so was looking to not have another caliber to go to. NRA Training Counselor NRA Benefactor Member | |||
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| Green grass and high tides |
As I said, with so little info a discussion like this can be all over the map. I do not own a scout rifle. I agree with Es. on that subject alone. Go a traditional bolt action. On scopes, since Vortex has been mentioned. I have not had good results with them and could not recommend them. There are a lot better options out there. "Practice like you want to play in the game" | |||
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| The guy behind the guy |
Yeah, I try not to complicate my life with a bunch of different calibers...and I keep failing!  Shooting a 1” group at 100 yards with a sub moa gun don’t too hard with some experience. The internet will tell it’s easy and they can do it at will, of course my eyes on the range tell me the vast majority of folks can’t do it. However, shooting a 5” group at 500 yards with the same gun is muuuuuch harder. Adding a bullet that’s dropping fast at 500 yards and that is more susceptible to wind drift only makes it that much harder. Shooting 12” inch groups at 500 yards feels bad man. Give yourself a chance to have more fun by bringing that group down to 8” with practice. I’m sure there are guys who can shoot 5-6” groups at 500 yards with a 5.56, but it’s harder than you think and I’d wager that most who say they can do it are full of crap. Don’t handicap yourself at shooting longer ranger. It can be so much fun and satisfying, but you need a cartridge suited to it for full enjoyment imo. | |||
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X2 on vortex, unless you are Messi g with their razor line, their lower end stuff is junk. The diamondback is no a good scope and you can almost always do better than vortex for more than or less than the cost of vortex. I’d also avoid Athlon which is sort of like the new vortex. | |||
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I suspect you have a few AR-15s. So you are familiar with the 223 cartridge -- its strengths, weaknesses, and flight properties. In addition to the questions I asked above: - What positions will you be shooting from? Bench, barricades, prone, alternative? - Will your shooting be at a public range? Are there rules on target types and sizes? - Are distances to target known and do they remain static? - Can you engage multiple targets at the same time? - Will you be shooting from a fixed position -- like a bench -- or will you shoot and move? - What are your accuracy expectations? - Do you intend to use only match-grade ammo? Or are you willing to sacrifice accuracy for low ammo cost? I own match bolt action rifles in 308 Win, 6.5 Creedmoor, and 223 Remy. I have 223 AR-15s with barrel lengths from 14.5" to 24". I have briefly shot match bolt actions in 6 Dasher, 243 Win, 6 Creedmoor, 6x47, 6.5x47, 260 Remy, and 7 SAW (essentially a 7mm-08). I can compare and contrast the calibers -- if I know more about what your use for this rifle will be. | |||
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This is absolutely, 100% true. All else being equal, angular group size will tend to get larger at longer ranges. I got to be a pretty good short range rifle shooter as a kid by shooting maybe 50,000 rounds according to NRA 4-position smallbore rules - in other words, on a 50-foot range with a .22 with iron sights. Of course, that didn't give me any experience with reading wind and compensating. When I spent a lot of money on a custom centerfire rifle a few years ago, the first range trip out I wanted to really see what I got for my money so I shot six, five-shot groups on one piece of paper at 100 yards, and the same at 300 yards. The average size of six, five-shot groups at 100 yards was 0.57" (0.54 MOA) and all the groups were well under 1". The average size of six, five-shot groups at 300 yards was 2.33" (0.74 MOA) and two of the groups were over 3" (one was over 1 MOA). At 500 yards, I doubt my average would have been sub-MOA. | |||
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