Happy new year, here in MA, the timer ticks down to new laws they assure us will bring us safety. These laws will only further restrict what good men can do. When I began collecting firearms, there was a federal ban, and I've had the pleasure of living in states that continued that tradition after it expired. A through line, was always the idea of "grandfathered." Not so much with this new trash, they mean to correct the "mistakes" of the current law.

Please excuse me while I ramble.

I make a habit of stopping by on Saturday mornings, to my local fun store. For a dose of sanity, and to not impede a busier time. What has stood out, is as this most egregious legislation bears down, there doesn't seem to be sufficient urgency. That is a puzzle. It could be lack of information, or the economy, who knows.

These last few years have been a strange time for me in a host of ways, and I made priority of "boiling down" my collection and focusing on some SBRs. Those SBRs will be banned.. Interesting how a state will deprive me of a federally registered firearm, but that is another thread.

I have been buying and selling firearms for a year or two, and among them are a bunch of milsurps. When you get one in your hands, you'll know things but only after getting a bunch of them in your hands. Is it a turd? Is it a fake? Is the condition legit and worth the price?

A few weeks ago, as I took my leave to go do something useful, an old man with a walker took up the door. He and his son were there with a trunk of guns to sell. If you're ever in a gun shop, and something like this happens, wait patiently. Also hold your tongue. Let the shop do what they do, if you are loyal. If you are loyal, do business with the shop, and not in the parking lot.

If you see something you like, and are unsure, always put money down. NEVER leave a gun you want without that "bookmark." You might need to gather funds, or do research, but never just assume they're wait for you. Sometimes, if you are present when someone sells guns to a shop, you might be able to get a "before the wall" price. This depends on your relationship with the shop. If you hear what they paid, and they know you, a deal may be struck without a word.

Know your limits, know etiquette, know when to haggle. Listen to Kenny Rogers.

Between impending legislation, and where I am in the scope of firearms I'm interested in and willing to buy, we're talking about a very narrow window. One I was unaware of, until this literally walked in the door:



I've owned some rare firearms, and the ones I can't shoot have moved on down the line. This is one where, it is exceptionally rare but not so pristine. An opportunity that had to be answered. I can't expect such a thing to ever happen again, certainly not if the leftists see laws to their satisfaction.

Firearms are human history.

Well said and a none finer choice in U.S. Military rifle collectables could be made. Bravo sir and Happy New Year!

I owned one briefly, seriously cool rifles and amazing history. Congratulations!

quote:

Originally posted by Ace31:
Well said and a none finer choice in U.S. Military rifle collectables could be made. Bravo sir and Happy New Year!

It was either go for it, or never. Certainly the likelihood of handling one is super low, and holy shit have you seen what people want for these? Some of them are dreaming, but all are still rare guns.

quote:

Originally posted by Andyb:
I owned one briefly, seriously cool rifles and amazing history. Congratulations!

A weirder history than a lot of WWII weapons, considering the lack of markings. These days, unless it's actually "lettered" and has some documented history, it's not a rifle that went overseas. Any of them could be, I suppose, but something that actually got dragged around the South Pacific is unlikely to be remotely pristine.

It's more likely that the ones you bump into are parts guns from after the war, but because these weren't marked like the Garands etc.. it's all but impossible to tell. My only concern about owning one and shooting it would be breaking a spring or other part. Then it'd be trying to find a capable, knowledgeable smith. I'll risk it.

I do have these to go with it:





Those are my US rifles from WWII. You'll note that my '03 Springfield is styled after a K98. Or is it the other way round? A Russian capture but otherwise original. The carbine is a real Rock-Ola, I found it bubbaed actually. Poor thing, choate stock and all. So it is refurbed and a shooter. Same with the Garand, a wartime gun that got the NM workover and a new stock.

I hope this dogshit new legislation doesn't pass, but it probably will. After that the available firearms to purchase will drastically decrease, and my ability to pass these to my son will also be outlawed. I hope in time that gun bans are all struck down by the SC, and frankly, can we spend that energy on the root causes of violence? Where change would actually occur...

When the Johnson wandered in, I was about done buying guns, and kinda am. The near certainty of retarded new laws in this state is one piece, but for me there is also "too many guns," after a fashion it starts to feel like a museum if you can't shoot them all. My son has been shooting with me a few times, and I do hope he grows an interest in fire arms. If he doesn't, a few decades from now I guess I'd let all this stuff back into the wild. I would hope by then we'd sorted the "shall not be infringed" business, along with the meaning of "militia."

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:
it is exceptionally rare

That's an understatement.

Wow.

If you don't mind sharing, how much did you pay?

And if you haven't already, I'd recommend picking up a copy of Bruce Canfield's book:

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:
A weirder history than a lot of WWII weapons, considering the lack of markings.

Are you saying there are no markings at all? (Not normal)

Or just that there are no US military markings? (Normal)

Many of the postwar parts rifles were assembled with aftermarket barrels, or converted M1903 or M1 barrels. You can check the barrel for Dutch (O-Sword-I) proof markings to see if it's an original WW2 production Johnson barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder:
Any of them could be, I suppose, but something that actually got dragged around the South Pacific is unlikely to be remotely pristine.

Of the ~22,000 M1941 Johnson rifles produced, only 773 of them were ever provided to the USMC, and of those only 265 were used overseas by the USMC 1st Parachute Regiment in the Solomon Islands campaign.

So only roughly 1.2% of all M1941 rifles saw actual use with US Marines in the Pacific Theater, and only ~3.5% were used by the USMC at all.

The majority of the couple hundred rifles used overseas were reportedly destroyed in late 1943 when the Paramarines were dissolved and use of the Johnson rifle was ordered discontinued. Reports from Paramarines are that they were mostly either buried on Bougainville or thrown in the ocean.

As you said, absent collateral documentation, there's no way to tell. But the odds are very slim.

Wow! That's one you don't see every day, if ever. Nice job grabbing it up.

What you wrote about gun shop etiquette and relationships is spot on as well. Having worked in a shop many moons ago, that's exactly how things operate, or how they should at least. Thanks for bringing back a few memories of good deals I was able to bring home in much the same fashion over the years.


As for the impending restrictions on your freedom, I think apathy is setting in with the masses. Not to derail the threads intent, just commenting real quickly that society has been smashed in the face with so much file wickedness the past few years, it's become the norm and is just tolerated. Very, very sad.


I remember when I lived in Cali and they were going to enact a ban on .50 caliber guns. What was I to do? Yup, for no reason other than they said I wouldn't be allowed to, I brought home an Armalite 50bmg. I had no use for it but they said I couldn't, so I did before they took that right away.

Eventually, I just packed up, left that once beautiful state that's now a dumpster fire and started life over where I still have my freedoms.


Back to the topic - I'd have to shoot it as well, just a little. Make sure to post back with that when you do!

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Or just that there are no US military markings? (Normal)

I'm saying you can't go at these the way you might evaluate almost any other milsurp. Proofs and arsenal marks, even finish. Because they weren't matching right out the gate, the development of full adoption would have brought those markings but alas. Even Dutch markings doesn't necessarily mean the whole gun was Dutch contract, I wouldn't make that assumption when you can just pop the barrel like cracking a beer. I think it's most likely that nearly all the Johnsons out there are post-war rebuilds at the very least. I'm happy to have one to shoot, the previous owner did, they didn't clean it. Easy peasy to break down and clean, I'm quite happy there is no gas piston system to worry about.

quote:

Originally posted by inspcalahan:
What you wrote about gun shop etiquette and relationships is spot on as well. Having worked in a shop many moons ago, that's exactly how things operate, or how they should at least. Thanks for bringing back a few memories of good deals I was able to bring home in much the same fashion over the years.

How things work and what to do in a gun shop, is something that will never be replaced by online stuff. Finding a local shop you like, and listening more than you talk, are the first steps I hope people are still doing. Actually making mistakes by buying fakes or turds is something you can't really stave off with just asking questions on a gun board, god forbid you look at online prices to gauge said price. The human element at the counter is one of my favorite things, gun shows are a different animal and a waste of time here now.

quote:

Originally posted by inspcalahan:As for the impending restrictions on your freedom, I think apathy is setting in with the masses. Not to derail the threads intent, just commenting real quickly that society has been smashed in the face with so much file wickedness the past few years, it's become the norm and is just tolerated. Very, very sad.

Back to the topic - I'd have to shoot it as well, just a little. Make sure to post back with that when you do!

It's not off topic, it was certainly on my mind when the rifle appeared, as I was just hanging out lamenting the political state of this country. A piece of it is the economy, thanks biden! Even if people are inclined to try to buy something ahead of another ban, their wallets may say otherwise. It may be apathy, or they may be way too optimistic of the speed at which things are hopefully overturned. I'm well behind on things I need to shoot, life is busy and that's no complaint. I really do hope my son comes to the range often going forward, it's likely.

At the time of this writing, I'm hearing of a less than 1% compliance with IL's new shitpile AWB. CA, WA, VA, my dumb state, there are Leftists hard at work across this country ready to take any opportunity to erode freedoms. A supreme irony considering that their efforts place the use of force in the hands of government, one that they should understand won't always be in their control. Then there's that pesky "defund" nonsense, I've enjoyed reading about certain cities "refunding" after they FUFOed. The misinformation about "mass shootings" continues, the exploitation of the families of victims continues. Suicides are counted among "gun deaths" and then ignored, along with any real effort to prevent violence or treat the disease of which violence is a symptom.

That's an awesome score on a beautiful rifle!!! I wouldn't say you used up your luck, I'd just say it's a combination of putting in the time and effort to be a good customer and a bit of karma for all the BS you've had to put up with living in a state that has no respect for your rights.

I don't know as I've ever seen a Johnson outside of a museum case, but that thing is awesome and I'm seriously excited for you that you get to own it. I'd love to hear how it shoots, especially in comparison to the Garand.

Welcome to Club Johnson,

and yes, get the book, it helps a bit,


you will need to get a Bayonet as well,

and study up on those, lots of fakes abound, (scabbards too)



FWIW, , this ares seems to have plently, I have sold 2 or 3 thru the shop in the past 10 yrs, (I bought my personal gun back in the 90's)

know , or rather knew, a gun up in NOVA that had 5 or 6, his Kids sold them off thru some auction house,


there was another pristine at the show this past weekend, with a $10K price tag, that was removed from the table due to some issues between the estate and a guy that , if rumors are true, did a widow wrong, and pulled it to prevent 'drama',

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
I'd love to hear how it shoots, especially in comparison to the Garand.

I should get to it this summer. Forgotten Weapons and others have made the comparison, what they say makes sense. The Johnson is light up front and the action is short and snappy. the Garand is heavy up front and that gas system brings more of a push. I'll certainly report what I find.

quote:

Originally posted by lyman:
you will need to get a Bayonet as well,

Naw, no interest. I have an early Garand bayo, I like those. The Johnson, meh. Certainly not for the prices they command. Nor in an original sling if any even exist. The "seatbelt" I had, and between a 1907 and a canvas sling I think the nylon gives it some Korea flavor.

Can't believe no one has said this:

"Nice Johnson!"

quote:

Originally posted by kz1000:
Can't believe no one has said this:
"Nice Johnson!"

Somebody has to. I think my next step here is finding a smith with preservation skills.

Way cool! Congrats.

I'll get out and shoot this thing at some point. Before then, maybe I'll show some markings. I'm behind, I've got some bullpups to do, likely in spring.

I've sent some emails for preservation, silence. Maybe they think I'm full of shit? Maybe they are busy? Of all the guns I've owned, this is the only time I've sought such a service.