So either my search skills are lacking tonight or we haven’t really discussed what load we like best when using a 12 gauge for home defense - 00 Buck or 0000 Buck? Thoughts?

ETA: 0000, 000 or 00 Buck.

I like heavier pellets, with greater penetration than a higher number of lighter pellets.

I have no objective reason for this preference, but my feeling is that if I am limited to shotgun velocity, I will get as much penetration as possible. I don't really have to worry about penetration through walls into a child's bedroom or something like that.

Since 0000 is very rare around here, I use 000 and am happy with it's performance on water filled milk jugs.

ETA, all that said, I go with 2 3/4" loads, not 3" magnum since recoil is much more manageable, and I don't think a bad guy is really going to notice at home defense distances.

quote:

Originally posted by ArtieS:
I like heavier pellets, with greater penetration than a higher number of lighter pellets.

I have no objective reason for this preference, but my feeling is that if I am limited to shotgun velocity, I will get as much penetration as possible. I don't really have to worry about penetration through walls into a child's bedroom or something like that.

Since 0000 is very rare around here, I use 000 and am happy with it's performance on water filled milk jugs.

Do you prefer 000 over 00 because you get more pellets with a bigger diamter than 0000?

Normally 00 because it's so easy to find, but I've always like 4 Buck as well.

I prefer 000 because the pellets are larger than 00, and my local stores typically don't stock 0000, so I can't get it without either ordering online or traveling.

000 is .36" per shot, so it is roughly the diameter of a 9mm bullet (.355) and there are typically 9 or 10 of them in a standard shotshell. They are moving 1200 or 1250 fps, which is just a bit faster than a 9mm, which is closer to 1050 fps and yields good penetration.

The problem with shot shells is, that when you go down in diameter, you don't gain any velocity to make up for the lighter pellet. Velocity is limited by the pressures at which shotguns operate, and the gross weight of all pellets, not the weight of the individual pellet.

Given all of that, I shoot the heavier pellets for better penetration.

Now, 0000 is .375 diameter, and I'd love to try some but as I say, near me, it is rare and expensive. In addition, 000 patterns well from my 870 with all pellets hitting in a 6 to 8 inch circle at 25 yards, meaning that if I get a good shot off at a bad guy, he is getting hit with the rough equivalent of 10 9mm rounds at the same time. That's bound to leave a mark.

Since my home defense situation may require firing into a car, (parking area is right outside bedroom and office), again, penetration is king, and the 000 will, I believe, penetrate the vehicle better.

Try 00 Buck and look into the new Flite control stuff. It really works and holds the patterns tight.
Different brands call it different things but does the same objective.
Sample like this stuff.

https://www.brownells.com/ammu...ze_1=ov1ov100%2bBuck



https://youtu.be/YMi3tvnpMc4

Never had any issues with value-pack Winchester OO I find at WalMart for decent prices.

Also a fan of Winchester O.

Debating various buckshot size terminal effectiveness at typical HD ranges is splitting hairs IMO.

No need to make it more complicated than it needs to be.

-------------------------------------

I've studied this stuff extensively. As such, my 12 gauge is loaded with Federal #4 buckshot. 2 3/4 inch, 1325 feet per second, 27 pellets AND ABSOLUTELY NO FLIGHT CONTROL WAD.

The largest shot in my home is about 15 feet, and likely 5 to 10 feet max. I do not want a flight control load at those distances.

These 27 pellets are showing 12 to 15 inches of penetration in gel, which is ideal. 27 wound tracks, averaging 14 inches of penetration = absolute man stopper.

This load also doesn't penetrate walls like an errant 00buck pellet does, which limits over penetration concerns.

Some genius, years ago, posted onto the interwebs that number 1 buck was the smallest buckshot load that reliably penetrated at least 12 inches, meeting FBI performance guidelines. This info has been posted all over the net, thousands of times, regurgitated over and over again like a crazed parrot. Unfortunately, his info was wrong. Number 4 buck easily gets to 12 inches.

I really don’t think a center mass shot with 00 or 0000 buck is going to make a difference at normal distances inside of a home. Both will do the job. Personally I stick with 00 buck. But there’s something about o be said for slugs as well, if over penetration isn’t a concern.

An informative discussion of various shotgun loads here.

I'm a #1 Buck fan. I've seen what it does to adrenaline filled deer being chased by dogs on multiple occasions. Out to 50 yards it is a devastating load.

quote:

Originally posted by bubbatime:
I've studied this stuff extensively. As such, my 12 gauge is loaded with Federal #4 buckshot. 2 3/4 inch, 1325 feet per second, 27 pellets AND ABSOLUTELY NO FLIGHT CONTROL WAD.

The largest shot in my home is about 15 feet, and likely 5 to 10 feet max. I do not want a flight control load at those distances.

These 27 pellets are showing 12 to 15 inches of penetration in gel, which is ideal. 27 wound tracks, averaging 14 inches of penetration = absolute man stopper.

This load also doesn't penetrate walls like an errant 00buck pellet does, which limits over penetration concerns.

Some genius, years ago, posted onto the interwebs that number 1 buck was the smallest buckshot load that reliably penetrated at least 12 inches, meeting FBI performance guidelines. This info has been posted all over the net, thousands of times, regurgitated over and over again like a crazed parrot. Unfortunately, his info was wrong. Number 4 buck easily gets to 12 inches.

Our home layout is similar, 0-20ft shot. Flight Control would be a poor choice, require a precise aim under stress. Suggest to the OP buy every flavor you can get locally and shoot on paper the distances based on your layout. Pick the one that "patterns" the best or the largest pattern at those distances. In my 18" 870, cheap Remington #4 2 3/4 27 pellet and Federal Personal Defense #4 34 pellet. Both about 5" pattern at 10ft.

I have been a fan of number 4 buck for 30 years now.

at the time i tested it was 21 pellets per 2 3/4 shell. 21 pellets at 20.7 grains each. They have a diameter of 6.1mm They produced solid patters out to about 35 ft with most shot guns.

0000 buck weighs in at 82 gains per pellet at 9.65 mm in diameter. It is significantly larger than 00. I imagine less than the old standard of 9 pellets.

Buckshot Weights
Buckshot Sizes

Weights (gr)

Standard Loads (# of pellets)

Weight (grains)

Weight (oz.)


4

20.6

27

556.2

1.27


3

23.4

20

468

1.07

20 ga.

2

29.4


0

0.00


1

40

16

640

1.46


0

48.3

12

579.6

1.32


"00

53.8

9

484.2

1.11


"000

68

8

544

1.24

Thanks everyone. Very interesting discussion. My shotgun has a 22” barrel which seems a tad long for HD. Are you all shooting out of 18” barrels?

Federal #4Buck FliteControl.

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
Thanks everyone. Very interesting discussion. My shotgun has a 22” barrel which seems a tad long for HD. Are you all shooting out of 18” barrels?

immproved cyl, pump action benelli nova. Number 4 buck. The same one I dove hunt with, pheasant hunt with, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Bigboreshooter:
I'm a #1 Buck fan. I've seen what it does to adrenaline filled deer being chased by dogs on multiple occasions. Out to 50 yards it is a devastating load.

agree #1 is another good choice

many say its the best choice - best blend of # of pellets / size / penetration

of course nice thing about OO is you can get it just about anywhere

-------------------------------------

2 3/4" load of 1 buck.

I like #1 myself, but you really can't go wrong with #4-00. I don't see the point in heavier than 00 as even #4 will reliably penetrate 12" in ballistic gel.

My shotgun has #1s in the tube and Hornady low recoil TAP 00 on the side-saddle. With my 18" barrel, I get about 7" patterns at 25yds with the TAP (similar to the "flight control" results) so I can really reach out with those if a long shot came up.

quote:

Originally posted by jaybirdaccountant:
Normally 00 because it's so easy to find, but I've always like 4 Buck as well.

I prefer #4 as well, but it can be dreadfully hard to find.