I shoot 4 gun Skeet and keeping in practice means that I do a lot of shooting. Ranges for shots on the Skeet field varies between 2 yards up to as much as 35 yards if you are a bit slow hitting the second target in a pair. Shooting these targets requires Point shooting every single target. In fact if you even glance at the bead on the end of the barrel for just a split second you will miss the target. Note, we don't ignore the barrel but it's a component of the Sight Picture that incorporates the lead required for the target, when the sight picture is good you pull the trigger. The reason for hte Point Shooting is all about TIME, when you have two targets in the air at the same time you have to hit quickly or you'll miss a target or two. In Skeet if you miss just 1 target in 100 that's all it takes to put you off the winners list.

Accuracy. Just because you are using a shotgun doesn't mean that accuracy doesn't matter. Because the outer fringes of a pattern can be think enough that target can sail thru without ever getting hit with a pellet. If you want a sure hit you want your shot string well centered on the target and being off with a foot with a 12 gauge may score you a hit but the same shot with a 28 gauge will be a clean miss. BTW I practice with a 410 for two reasons, it requires more precision and it's the least expensive shell to reload.

Sum it up and Shotguns are NOT across the room accurate, they are good well beyond that. The current world record for a Trap style shot is On a Sporting Clays course targets are typically in the 25-50 yard range but the tough courses can have shots at 80 yards or more. BTW, for the long shots changing to a Full or Extra Full choke is common. As for shooting slugs, watch Hickok45 and you will see him hitting 80 yard targets consistently with a simple bead.

So, optics for Home Defense, IMO just plain foolish. Because while you are still trying to acquire that little red dot your assailant has had enough time to put 5 into your chest and a double tap to the head. With point shooting it's a matter of Mount, Point, pull the trigger and your facing a dead body. Time required, about 3/10 second start to finish.

PS; it takes about a year and a half to become skilled enough at Skeet to hit 20 out of 25 at Skeet. If you start out with a Pump action you'll also gain the skill to operate a pump faster than a semi can cycle. If you want to become seriously skilled with a pump gun start out by shooting Trap to nail down the concept of Lead and then start shooting Skeet. Bad news is is addicting so be prepared to that another shotgun is always a good choice.

No optic. Just no.

Just picked up a 590A1 Retrograde with the ghost ring sight. Again a big no on the optic. This is way more than enough.

quote:

Originally posted by Scooter123:
So, optics for Home Defense, IMO just plain foolish. Because while you are still trying to acquire that little red dot your assailant has had enough time to put 5 into your chest and a double tap to the head. With point shooting it's a matter of Mount, Point, pull the trigger and you’re facing a dead body. Time required, about 3/10 second start to finish.

Not a lot of experience using a red dot on a shotgun, but my experience with a red dot on a pistol is that if you are looking for the dot you are doing it all wrong. You have to practice enough and get consistent enough in your presentation that it is *almost* point shooting. The advantages (for me) are 1) I can focus on the target, not the sights, resulting in better situational awareness*, and 2) If/when that dot goes skittering away when I launch the round it is much easier to see than alignment of irons going south at the critical moment (at least with my old eyes).

Maybe the barrel (or vent rib) of the shotgun can do most of that for you so the optic doesn’t add much, I dunno. Done right though, the RDS shouldn’t slow you down at all.

*Had a very interesting turn in the Sheriff’s simulator (laser & compressed air to cycle fake Glocks). The scenario is you’re helping / providing cover while your daughter moves out, away from a now ex against whom she has a restraining order. All of a sudden, he shows up, moving with intent and focus approaching even as you tell him to stop and stay back. You see what looks like a blade in his hands, focus goes to the sights which go to the center of his chest. You repeatedly yell at him to stop but he keeps coming. In the background you can hear the other students saying something as you dump a magazine in his chest, carefully focused on your front sight. Instructor stops the simulation and you see the 8 1/2x11 sheet of paper in the guy’s hand. In discussing it in the debrief, the paper really looked like a knife initially, but as he kept coming it became obvious what it was to all the other students. By focusing on the sights on the ex’s chest instead of the ex’s hands though that cue was missed. Pretty big oops. Would I have maybe made the same mistake with my focus on the target with the dot just happening to float on his chest? Maybe. Maybe not though, and being able to focus on the target seems like a big advantage.

You’re already doing that with the shotgun, so maybe you don’t need an optic, I dunno. It might help someone else, or it might not, but if a red dot sight is slowing you down, you’re doing it wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by slosig:
Not a lot of experience using a red dot on a shotgun, but my experience with a red dot on a pistol is that if you are looking for the dot you are doing it all wrong.

Bingo. If you're hunting around "trying to acquire the dot", you're doing it wrong.

It's not like acquiring sights.

Focus on the threat. Bring the firearm into your line of sight. The dot should appear on the target.

But your focus remains on the threat the entire time, just like when "point shooting"

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

Bingo.

Thankfully people don’t get shot at enough to know what they believe may actually not be correct.