I am looking at adding another AR 15 my collection and while considering Colt I have gotten very interested Bravo Company Manufacturing rifles. I have been looking at the BCM RECCE 16 KMR-A vs. BCM RECCE 16 KMR-LW. Besides all the outstanding quality control and military specifications the only difference between the 2 rifles is that the LW has a pencil barrel weighing in at 5.8 pounds while the regular KMR-A has a standard barrel weighing in at 6.1 pounds. Due to having shoulder surgery, I find the lighter weight works best for me however, for resale value and heavy use I am considering the standard barrel. I have the following questions if anyone’s interested answering them.

1) I am making the assumption that BCM will be around for at least the next 10 years and considering my age that may be the point where I no longer am able to shoot my AR 15’s?

2) I am leaning towards the standard barrel profile even though it is 5 ounces heavier at the end of the rifle, since it gives me more options with magazine rapid firing and resale value. Comments please!

3) Will Key Mod be supported in 5 years? Some people I know tell me that it is being phased out such as VHS versus Betamax.

4) Are there any negatives to BCM rifles that I have not considered?

While I don't own a complete BCM rifle, my two main ARs are complete BCM uppers on Mega lowers that I have built to my liking.

I have a BCM BFH 16" Mid Length (ENHANCED Light Weight) Upper Receiver Group w/ BCM KMR-*ALPHA* 13" Handguard , which is likely pretty similar to the upper on the RECCE 16 KMR-LW. I also have a BCM bolt and at the time BCM CH, so the upper was essentially all stock BCM.

I am nearly 2K on the upper and it has run great, including 600rds 1-day carbine course where it never skipped a beat (except for a fouled magazine, which got a rock in it, binding the follower and failing to load the next round - not the fault of the upper or the weapon).

It handles great, but then again so does my Colt 16" trooper with a Gov't profile barrel. The BCM is lighter, but some of the feel comes from the small handguard I think.

On to your questions

(1) Yes, they are a solid company and just expanded - look for Larry Vickers BCM Tour video on youtube where he talks with the owner.

(2) I don't think you will notice a whole lot of different until you get to near Full Auto rates of fire. I did multiple 30-60rd scenarios and while it gets hot, any rifle will if you shoot 60+rds in 1-3mins.

(3) Keymod is alive and well (see comments by the BCM owner). I actually prefer it to MLOK, it's easier to install and change Keymod than MLOK. Although I have MLOK as well on a SCAR. Note that BCM also make MLOK handguards - it may not be available in a rifle, but you could buy the upper and a complete BCM lower separately and make it yourself if you want / need MLOK.

(4) Negatives? They aren't the most expensive, but they aren't cheap either, normally in the $1300 range for a complete rifle. Hence the reason I built my own on lowers I already had, but I would never turn down a BCM rifle. BCM puts a lot of work into Quality Control (see the video), so some of that is trying to ensure the customer will be happy with the upper / rifle the first time around.

Don't buy a rifle with characteristics that you don't want because of resale value.

ARs are not Holland and Holland double rifles. They won't appreciate outside of some unfortunate legislative nonsense.

Either way, there will be just as much demand for the lighter barrel than the heaver barrel.

BCM should be around, but even if they are not, the modularity of the AR platform will ensure your rifle components will still be in demand.


Light barrels handle rapid fire just fine, unless absolute accuracy is your goal.


Keymod longevity is tougher to predict. I am 100% keymod myself, and I think it is well established enough to stick around. Others may disagree. I have no experience with mlok, but I am satisfied with all my keymod accessories and have no plans to switch.

Thanks for the well written posts RHINOWSO and Indiana Boy. Your posts will help me with decision for the BCM LW which is what I want. 5.8 lbs. is light for an 16" AR. To go lighter I would have to build one myself with probably expensive parts.

I like BCM's due to the quality, good detail on website (like to know exactly what I am buying) and the finish.

I have the same upper as Rhino, but with the magnesium rail. It's a great upper, but if I was buying today I would go Mlok because more companies are leaning that way, and to me the cutouts would provide more rigidity. I would also get a longer rail to fit a laser and iron sight out further.

1 -- BCM likely will be around in 10 years. But maybe they won't. Who knows what AR-producing companies will be alive and kicking in a decade. Assuming any AR-15 manufacturer is around, or any gunsmith willing to work on AR-15s is around, obtaining parts and service on an AR-15 that doesn't have funky proprietary parts shouldn't be an issue. Based on your comments on other threads, I see paralysis by analysis.

2 -- As stated above, ignore the possibilities of resale value differences. It's not going to occur. You talk of rapid fire -- do you consistently make mag dumps? Is this why you're looking at chrome lined barrels? What kind round counts do you have on your other AR-15s? Have you ever replaced a barrel due to throat erosion? Due you shoot thousands upon thousands of rounds per year?

3 -- Rail systems come and go. Key mod works, but I suspect it will never be the industry leader.

4 -- I rate BCM above Colt and Sig, in response to your other thread.

One thing to consider is what will this new AR do that your existing ARs do not. Are you looking for greater accuracy? If so, what do you get now and what are you expecting?

Are you looking for greater reliability? If so, what's your cycling failure rate for existing ARs and what do you expect with the new one?

Are you looking for a lighter rifle? Again, weigh your current ones vs. the BCM models.

You've been asking some questions on the forum -- what is it that you want the new AR to do differently than your existing ones? How much do you expect to shoot this rifle? Will you continue to shoot your existing rifles if you buy a new one?

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
1 -- BCM likely will be around in 10 years. But maybe they won't. Who knows what AR-producing companies will be alive and kicking in a decade. Assuming any AR-15 manufacturer is around, or any gunsmith willing to work on AR-15s is around, obtaining parts and service on an AR-15 that doesn't have funky proprietary parts shouldn't be an issue. Based on your comments on other threads, I see paralysis by analysis.

2 -- As stated above, ignore the possibilities of resale value differences. It's not going to occur. You talk of rapid fire -- do you consistently make mag dumps? Is this why you're looking at chrome lined barrels? What kind round counts do you have on your other AR-15s? Have you ever replaced a barrel due to throat erosion? Due you shoot thousands upon thousands of rounds per year?

3 -- Rail systems come and go. Key mod works, but I suspect it will never be the industry leader.

4 -- I rate BCM above Colt and Sig, in response to your other thread.

One thing to consider is what will this new AR do that your existing ARs do not. Are you looking for greater accuracy? If so, what do you get now and what are you expecting?

Are you looking for greater reliability? If so, what's your cycling failure rate for existing ARs and what do you expect with the new one?

Are you looking for a lighter rifle? Again, weigh your current ones vs. the BCM models.

You've been asking some questions on the forum -- what is it that you want the new AR to do differently than your existing ones? How much do you expect to shoot this rifle? Will you continue to shoot your existing rifles if you buy a new one?

Thanks for the detailed response Fritz and yes, you have seen me do “paralysis by analysis.” I plead guilty. In response to your questions that I do appreciate:

2) On my SIG M400 Enhanced I fired 4100 rounds in 2 years and only had one malfunction about 540 rounds. The bolt carrier group would not go into battery. Breaking the gun down and putting some hobbies oil on it cure the problem.

3) As far as the rail systems go I probably should not even be concerned because that can easily be changed and I doubt will be running around and break it.

4) I do want something lighter and different from my SIG.

Overall, what I want is another AR for my collection and something that is different for my SIG. My SIG seems to be heavy I think I am pushing 7 ½ or 7 3/4 pounds and I have a Magpul SL Carbine handguard with the rail in a vertical grip and a sling mount for a para cord. I do notice differences in weight of a pound to a pound and ½ significantly, so a rifle that starts out much lighter will be to my liking.

As I am older and now 65 my time at the firing range is limited and thus whatever I buy, I wanted to have a good feel look and comfort of knowing that I have a quality firearm.

I bought two Smith & Wesson M&P’s on sale and have never shot them. They are about a pound lighter but feel significantly different and better holding them than my SIG.

Thanks for the reply.

quote:

Originally posted by SSAreGreat:
4) I do want something lighter and different from my SIG.

I bought two Smith & Wesson M&P’s on sale and have never shot them. They are about a pound lighter but feel significantly different and better holding them than my SIG.

There's your answer.

I see no downside to a LW barrel in a semi-auto carbine configuration.

Select-fire, sure. Precision rifle, yes, you'd want a heavier contour.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by SSAreGreat:
4) I do want something lighter and different from my SIG.

I bought two Smith & Wesson M&P’s on sale and have never shot them. They are about a pound lighter but feel significantly different and better holding them than my SIG.

There's your answer.

Yes the practical answer would be to save the money, keep the 2 S&Ws and then use the money for another handgun setup. But that would be less fun but probably wiser. Reminds me of someone I met at the range. He was 70 plus. Told me he did not shoot his $2500 AR any better than his $700 AR

Thanks for the idea. I am seriously considering it

It doesn't make any sense to state that:
- you have already purchased 2 S&W ARs that in theory provide the lighter weight rifle you want
- you haven't even shot the S&W rifles yet
- you want to buy another lighter-weight rifle

You state you've fired 4100 rounds in through your Sig. With only one stoppage, which was likely a lubrication problem -- not an issue with rifle, magazine, or ammo. That's solid reliability. Unless you're shooting for precision accuracy in competition -- which I doubt with a Sig M400 -- that barrel has a fair amount of practical life left. However, if you intend to shoot this type of volume year in and year out, an investment in a spare barrel and BCG may be a good idea.

You state you have shoulder issues and are looking for a lighter rifle. How are you shooting these 4100 rounds? Bench, prone, standing off-hand, kneeling, sitting, slung, from barricades, shoot-&-move, in training courses, in competition, on a square range ???

******
"Told me he did not shoot his $2500 AR any better than his $700 AR"

Many people cannot. Just like many people can't drive a Ferrari any better than a Corolla. Equipment is easy to buy. It takes time and effort to develop the skills to use equipment to its fullest potential. Many people would rather buy a participation award than invest the countless hours over the years -- the years that it takes to earn the true championship trophy.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
It doesn't make any sense to state that:
- you have already purchased 2 S&W ARs that in theory provide the lighter weight rifle you want
- you haven't even shot the S&W rifles yet
- you want to buy another lighter-weight rifle

You state you've fired 4100 rounds in through your Sig. With only one stoppage, which was likely a lubrication problem -- not an issue with rifle, magazine, or ammo. That's solid reliability. Unless you're shooting for precision accuracy in competition -- which I doubt with a Sig M400 -- that barrel has a fair amount of practical life left. However, if you intend to shoot this type of volume year in and year out, an investment in a spare barrel and BCG may be a good idea.

You state you have shoulder issues and are looking for a lighter rifle. How are you shooting these 4100 rounds? Bench, prone, standing off-hand, kneeling, sitting, slung, from barricades, shoot-&-move, in training courses, in competition, on a square range ???

******
"Told me he did not shoot his $2500 AR any better than his $700 AR"

Many people cannot. Just like many people can't drive a Ferrari any better than a Corolla. Equipment is easy to buy. It takes time and effort to develop the skills to use equipment to its fullest potential. Many people would rather buy a participation award than invest the countless hours over the years -- the years that it takes to earn the true championship trophy.

Probably the last 1000 rounds were sitting. I shoot my ARs despite my physical issue though it is getting harder to due because of neck arthritis. So if I did get another AR I would only shoot it 3 or 4 times per year. I may be better off with another pistol which I can and do shoot every 2 weeks. I have the CZ Scorpion and shoot it. Would love the HK SP5K but the prices are too high. The S&Ws have not been shot since I am waiting for prices to go back up. Got good deals on them. If I bought the BCM then both of the SWs would be sold by the next election

Thanks for your detailed post it is very helpful

Sounds like a BCM lightweight 11.5" AR15 "pistol" would serve you better than another rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
Sounds like a BCM lightweight 11.5" AR15 "pistol" would serve you better than another rifle.

Interesting idea. I will take a look at them. How well do the arm braces work for stabilization and recoil absorption?

They are a workable stock substitute.

quote:

Originally posted by SSAreGreat:

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
Sounds like a BCM lightweight 11.5" AR15 "pistol" would serve you better than another rifle.

Interesting idea. I will take a look at them.

Since weight is a physical issue, consider the weight savings of a AR pistol, including the type of brace you will use. I suspect the weight savings will be in the 1/2 to 3/4 pound ballpark, but no more than one pound -- depending on the brand of brace and length of barrel. Given your shoulder, it may not be comfy to hold the pistol out as a pistol, so you will likely be using the brace as a stock.

And of course, pistol-length barrels are louder than rifle-length barrels.

Get the ELW. Even just a few ounces make a difference and I've seen no accuracy issues.

My favorite carbine is a 1/9 twist Bushmaster pencil barrel, RRA upper receiver and carrier. It rides on a RRA lower with their 2 stage match trigger. It is honestly on of the best shooting in the stable of carbines. 75 gr Hornady match HP's are very accurate and my choice in 2 and 3 gun matches. My next build will be a similar with another LW barrel. A pistol may work for you if you understand they are louder, but certainly not less enjoyable to shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:

quote:

Originally posted by SSAreGreat:

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
Sounds like a BCM lightweight 11.5" AR15 "pistol" would serve you better than another rifle.

Interesting idea. I will take a look at them.

Since weight is a physical issue, consider the weight savings of a AR pistol, including the type of brace you will use. I suspect the weight savings will be in the 1/2 to 3/4 pound ballpark, but no more than one pound -- depending on the brand of brace and length of barrel. Given your shoulder, it may not be comfy to hold the pistol out as a pistol, so you will likely be using the brace as a stock.

And of course, pistol-length barrels are louder than rifle-length barrels.

Thank you for the informative post Fritz I appreciate all your responses and find your comments and the comments of the other members of this form very helpful.

I checked the weight of the BCM AR pistol versus the BCM rifle KMR-A-LW and the pistol weighs 5 pounds in addition to .5 to .75 pounds for the brace. The rifle weighs 5.8 pounds so the weight difference is about the same. The rifle is 32.5 inches collapsed while the pistol is 27 inches. So retracting 5.5 inches of weight extension certainly does help but then there are disadvantages of the pistol so it may simply be better to get the rifle. The disadvantages of the pistol is reduce velocity, louder noise, no vertical grip allowed (I do not like angled for grips that much), and a chance ATF will reverse its ruling on “incidentally” allowing shouldering of braces. The bump stock ban was approved last night and goes into effect in March 2019. If someone does commit a mass shooting with an AR pistol and brace, there may be additional restrictions.

I do tend to over analyze situations but I would like to try to look at all the pros, cons, and make a reasonable prediction.

Once again, thanks to all the members for their wonderful posts which are very informative. The SIG Sauer Forum form is the best form I have ever experience.

BCM does not pin on their gas blocks, which is a crying shame, and non compliant with their hell and back reliability persona.

A pinned on gas block is an absolute necessity for a fighting rifle in my house hold.