I have a Mini-14 factory folder that I want to shorten the barrel on. Per the NFA rules, a folder that can fire when folded must be longer than 26 inches.

The stock barrel is 18.5 inches so I can cut it down a bit, get it recrowned and even get shorter if I pin/weld a flash suppressor/hider.

So, the end of the grip is maybe 1 inch "longer" than the end of the "receiver".

Do you use receiver to end of barrel or do you use the longest part of the rifle (i.e. the grip) to the end of the barrel?

If this works... pictures for reference:

We went through this with the 556R, IIRC. The answer that came up is that you measure from the furthest point back to the furthest point forward on the rifle as it exists.

In other words, lay out a ruler or measuring tape parallel to the rifle, and measure from the back end of the grip to the front end of the rifle (presumeably the muzzle if the muzzle device is removable, the end of the muzzle device itself if it isn't removable).

But you definitely measure from the furthest point back on the grip. This, incidentally, is why those Mossberg Shockwaves are legal - the Raptor grip stretches out the overall length.

Overall length for NFA purposes is measured with the folding or telescoping stock fully extended, provided the stock is not removed or readily removable (that is, without the use of tools).

For example, see the ATF publication "What is a Firearm?" here: https://www.atf.gov/file/58196/download

They provide the example of the Marble Game Getter, which has 18" barrels and a folding stock. (And which too can fire with the stock folded.) The ATF specifies that because it has a barrel of legal length and it is over 26" with the stock extended, it is not an NFA firearm.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Overall length for NFA purposes is measured with the folding stock extended, provided the stock is not readily removable (that is, without the use of tools).

Yes, but I read somewhere on the interwebz that there is a requirement of being over 26 inches if the weapon can fire with the stock COLLAPSED!

Hence the question since the Mini-14 can fire in either configuration.

James in Denver

EDIT TO AD:

Thanks Il Cattivo, that's what I was hoping for!!!

quote:

Originally posted by James in Denver:
Yes, but I read somewhere on the interwebz that there is a requirement of being over 26 inches if the weapon can fire with the stock COLLAPSED!

Please provide me with an example from an ATF publication or NFA statute that states this.

The confusion may have come about because a few states (such as California or Michigan) have laws specifying that OAL for state law purposes is measured from the "shortest fireable configuration". That is different from the federal standard.

So you'd be covered under federal law, but you'd need to check Colorado law too.

Here's an ATF letter with further clarification. It again states that OAL is measured with the stock extended.

http://www.victorinc.com/images/AKMFoldingStock.jpg

And another. In this one, the ATF even helpfully underlined that passage:

http://photobucket.com/gallery...ia/guns/ATF.jpg.html

Still unconvinced? How about some legal advice from a NFA lawyer? At https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/form1 he states "If there is a folding stock or collapsible stock, the measurement should be made with the stock fully extended."

Same with another NFA lawyer at http://www.texasnfatrust.com/, who states "The overall length is measured with any folding or collapsing stocks in the extended position."

Thanks!

I knew about the overall length with stock extended. I have several AR pistols .

If I find the link again, I'll post it, it was on another forum. It had to do with a folding stock if the unit still fired with the stock folded (unlike an AR with a folding stock).

You may be correct that it was Michigan specific, so I'll check.

Regardless, taking some preliminary measurements, I can go down just about to a 14.x inch barrel with a 2.5 inch pinned flash hider and be at 16 inches on the barrel and still be at 26.x overall folded.

If I find the link, I'll post. And again, thanks!

James

Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here. As long as your rifle barrel ( or I should say barrel assembly as in a barrel and any permanently attached muzzle device)is over 16" in length and the rifle is 26" overall with stock extended federally it is a rifle.
It sounds like you are implying you want to sort of "shockwave" a mini 14 to get a shorter overall length. Keep in mind fed laws Nfa/aow etc are different for rifles and smoothbores.

quote:

Originally posted by captain127:
It sounds like you are implying you want to sort of "shockwave" a mini 14 to get a shorter overall length.

Nope, I just wanted to shorten the 18.5 inch barrel to 16 inches with a permanent flash hider / comp.

The confusion came in where there was some chatter about a total length folded IF it was still operational while folded.

Per my post above, here was the source:
Minimum Length of Rifle - VIA ANOTHER FORUM

I found that via google, and there is mention of the OAL relative to still be operational about 1/2 way down the page.

However, further comments were about Michigan only.

I should have Wiki'd this, because per this page on Short Barreled Rifles it appears that it's only Michigan and California that have the FOLDED overall length issue per this quote:

Measurement method

Overall length is measured between the extreme ends of the gun, along a centerline which passes through the middle of the barrel. For rifles fitted with folding or telescoping stocks (such as U.S. Carbine M1A1), US Federal guidelines state that measurement is performed with the stock unfolded as intended for use as a rifle. Exception is made for rifles with easily detachable shoulder stocks, which shall be measured with the shoulder stock detached. Some states — such as California and Michigan — measure overall length with the stock folded. Barrel length is measured from the end of the muzzle to the front of the breechface, typically by inserting a measuring rod into the barrel. Barrel length may partially comprise a permanently attached muzzle accessory (such as a recoil compensator or flash suppressor).

Thanks!

James in Denver

I wonder what kind of receiver (I guess what kind of chambering) would really make it possible to take advantage of that regulation.

Barrel length the easy way:

1. Close the bolt
2. Insert a cleaning rod - sans brush, rod only - until contact with the bolt face.
3. Mark the rod with a Sharpie - or tape - at the muzzle.
4. Withdraw and measure the rod from the end to the line.
5. Then add 1/4" for lagniappe and you are good to go.

Just saw the "method" posted by James. Same thing, but mine is easy for us mental midgets. (Can I say this? )

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