Hi all,

I'm just about done setting up my AR. I just mounted a Tango Down short vertical grip on my 13" BCM KMR rail, and it makes a world of difference in comfort and control. I'm now looking to add a light and a sling adapter.

For the light...

I was originally thinking about getting an Inforce WML Gen 2 and mounting it at 12 o'clock on the top rail. This is still my preferred option due to the ease of use activating the light with either hand and the 12 o'clock location. I still question how much of my view will be obstructed by it in that location, though. I currently have an Aimpoint PRO mounted on the rifle using the factory mount, so it's an "absolute co-witness" height, rather than lower 1/3. What is your experience here? For my non-tactical needs, I also think the Inforce WML will be as reliable as I need.

But I'm also throwing around the idea of a more traditional light mounted offset at around 11 o'clock. What light and mount do you recommend for that application? I'd like a light in the 250-400 lumen range, and able to be mounted a tightly close to the KMR rail as possible. I'd likely use a push button to activate it with my thumb while my hand is on the vertical grip, but a pressure switch mounted at 12 o'clock is not out of the question. As for mounts, I was considering mounting it on the top rail with an offset, but a mount utilizing the keymod interface is fine too. Budget is around the same as the Inforce, plus the mount. What are the tried and true go-to options here that just work really well?

For the sling adapter...

I currently have my Blue Force Gear Vickers sling mounted on my B5 Systems SOPMOD Bravo stock and on the front of the KMR rail using a BCM QD socket. I'd like to try a different rear location (as well as possibly move the front location). I'm looking for a sling adapter I can mount around the castle nut similar to the Tango Down PR4 or Troy PGRSA, but a mount that is also rotation-limited. These two are not. What options do I have? I'd really prefer to not remove the castle nut to install a QD endplate. Besides, I'd like the option of attaching the sling to the side of the lower receiver, not the direct back of it. Additionally, what other options exist for attaching a sling in that location other than QD?

Thanks for any insights you can provide.

Chris

For the light mount I use the Vltor SMQ-OCG QD flashlight mount, with this set up you can mount in a variety of poistions. As long the light you choose to mount is 1" in diameter it will work and you can adjust the tension as well. They make another mount which is almost exact but accomodates lights with smaller than 1" diameter. So if this will work for you just choose your light and the mount that corresponds with the diameter of the light you choose.

SMQ-OCG( lights with 1" diameter)
http://www.skdtac.com/Vltor-QD...MQ-OCG-p/vlt.115.htm

SMQ-OE ( lights with less than 1" diameter)
http://www.skdtac.com/Vltor-QD...SMQ-OE-p/vlt.117.htm

Impact Weapon Components (IWC) also makes a bunch of mounts at a reasonable price. Take a look there and see if anything catches your attention.

http://www.impactweaponscomponents.com/

Streamlight is makjng a 1000 lumen rifle mounted HL-X, which I plan on purchasing soon. Has remote switch which makes it ambi as you mentioned earlier. This will mount your light to 3,6,9 o' clock positions. This particular light is configured in a scout setup.

http://streamlight.com/en/prod...otac-rail-mount-hl-x


LWRC makes a mount that attaches to the buffer tube that will allow for the sling to be positioned as mentioned earlier.

https://www.lwrci.com/p-240-lw...-qd-sling-mount.aspx

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Super Shooter,

For maximum field of view on a rifle using flip up front sight, suggest consider a light at 1 o'clock (right handed) or 11 o'clock (left handed) with a pressure switch at 12 o'clock directly behind flip up front sight.

For a rifle light, 200-400 lumens will limit distance you can positively ID a potential threat.

Possibly the best pressure switch/cable management solution available right now is by Cloud Defensive.
https://clouddefensive.com

Surefire lights are excellent.
Streamlight has come a long way and are also excellent.

Suggest consider this Streamlight package:
https://clouddefensive.com/col...ht-and-lcsmk2k-combo

Legit review of light:
https://youtu.be/xcTtYLBdlaU

tp

Are you looking for a keymod mount or a 1913 rail mount?

I've had guys take the PR4 mount you referenced down range with them without issues. But, as you mentioned it's not rotation limited.
I put the BCM back plates on several of my rifles but I found that I liked keeping the sling on my stock ( I don't change shoulders a lot). You could also try 550 cord like on the proctor sling or a clamp on loop like this one from MI. I don't endorse the MI product nor have I used it, I linked it to show you options.

quote:

Originally posted by CD228:
Are you looking for a keymod mount or a 1913 rail mount?

I'm considering both options.

After trying Inforce WML lights mounted at 12:00, I much prefer them at 11:00. It prevents them from interfering with your sight picture of FOV through your optic. And most importantly, putting the WML at 11:00 makes it easier and more natural/comfortable to activate with my support hand thumb when shooting from my strong side shoulder (which is typically where it's needed). Plus, on an AR, it can still be activated when shooting from the offside shoulder with a bit of reaching; you just have to stretch your thumb over top of the handguard.

Plus, leaving 12:00 clear gives me a place to put my thumb when the light isn't needed (which it usually isn't), and/or when I want to prevent inadvertent light activation that might give away my position.

Several of my rifles use WMLs on a IWC Thorntail Offset Rail mount. http://www.impactweaponscompon...daptive-light-mount/



The rail mount is modular; the rail section can be moved forwards/backwards on the mount section, and flipped to the other side as needed.

When attached to a 12:00 rail, it positions the WML at 11:00. This mount is usable on any handguard with a top rail, regardless of the type and location of other attachment points on the handguard. The only minor issue is that, depending on the exact setup, you may need to move your front BUIS several spaces back, to allow enough room at the front end of the handguard for the mount and your thumb. But losing that inch or two of sight radius isn't a big issue, especially if you're using a 13" or 15" handguard.



On my 14.5" carbine with Troy Delta rail, that wasn't an issue at all, since the handguard extends well forward of the front sight.



(I don't have any pics of my other rifles with this setup handy, nor any closeups of the setup. If I remember, I'll add some additional photos later today or tomorrow.)


By reconfiguring the position of the rail section on the mount section, this IWC Thorntail Rail mount can also be used on a 9:00 rail to achieve an 11:00 WML position, as seen on my Scorpion.




IWC also offers a Keymod Thorntail mount, that positions a WML at 11:00 when attached to the 9:00 Keymod slots. http://www.impactweaponscompon...daptive-light-mount/

BCM offers a similar style offset Keymod rail mount that allows the same setup, as seen on my Thin Blue Line AR. https://www.bravocompanyusa.co...-p/bcm-1913lm-km.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Chris17404:

quote:

Originally posted by CD228:
Are you looking for a keymod mount or a 1913 rail mount?

I'm considering both options.

Rogue put up a real good post. It's kind of hard to follow it, but...

On Keymod mounts I had a WML on a thorntail just like rogue. I liked it because it mounted right to the KMR, put the light at the 11 o'clock so it was easy to operate with my thumb. As Rogue said, no impact to sight picture. One thing to look at. Look at rogues "blue line" gun and where the front Troy buis lock release button is.

I switched to an Arisaka defense 300 scout light, it's a lower cost Surefire clone (they actual use surefire clicky tail caps) with either an arisaka inline or off set mount.
Link to light

Another option is the 1 inch BCM keymod mount and a surefire fury or similar. Pay attention to the instructions and use Loctite if recommended. I had one come lose when I didn't. YMMV

For a pic rail, I'd add the BCM rail that came with your rail (mine did) follow the directions and either attach the WML directly to the rail or may use an impact weapons system mount for the WML mentioned above.

Another 1913 option is the plastic VTAC light mount with a surefire fury or similar. It's a simple inexpensive mount that works and has worked for years. Crank down on the screws and add maybe add a witness mark and you are good to go. The rail you attached to the KMR might come lose before the mount will.

quote:

Originally posted by CD228:
One thing to look at. Look at rogues "blue line" gun and where the front Troy buis lock release button is.

It's tough to tell from the photos, but they're still enough room to get a finger or thumb in there to depress the button. It's just as easy to flip up/down as if there wasn't the WML mounted there.

The Troy sights are rather skinny, though. With a wider front BUIS, like a Magpul MBUS, you'd likely to have to move the front sight back behind the WML in order to make it fit. I don't think they could fit side-by-side.

Here are a couple additional photos, to expand upon my first post.

Here's a view of the WML and Thorntail Offset Rail mount on that 14.5" carbine, from above.




And here's a overhead view of the similar setup on another one of my ARs, which illustrates the point I was trying to make in my first post about potentially having to move the BUIS rearward if you have the WML and Thorntail Offset Rail mount attached to the top rail. I had to move the MBUS back a couple inches in order to get enough room for my hand/thumb to wrap over top, in-between the WML and the BUIS.

But the minor loss of sight radius isn't a big deal. It's still longer than the sight radius on a standard M4-style carbine. And the MBUS is just a backup to the Aimpoint anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by CD228:
One thing to look at. Look at rogues "blue line" gun and where the front Troy buis lock release button is.

It's tough to tell from the photos, but they're still enough room to get a finger or thumb in there to depress the button. It's just as easy to flip up/down as if there wasn't the WML mounted there.

The Troy sights are rather skinny, though. With a wider front BUIS, like a Magpul MBUS, you'd likely to have to move the front sight back behind the WML in order to make it fit. I don't think they could fit side-by-side.

My Troys are in the states and I am not, so help me out.

If I recall correctly, The only time you really need to use that button is to fold the sight down. Generally, I would say that's not something most folks need to do quickly. So its probably more of a CD228 (fat fingers) issue or a non issue.

However as Rogue points out with his comment on the MBUS and mount conflict, you have to look how your equipment integrates on your weapon and make sure it supports your shooting style and requirement.

Rogue should probably add AR configuration consultant to his resume. I've noticed he has a lot of good posts on setting up weapons.

quote:

Originally posted by CD228:
My Troys are in the states and I am not, so help me out.

If I recall correctly, The only time you really need to use that button is to fold the sight down.

Correct.

I put a Surefire in a Daniel Defense keymod offset mount. I like it.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
After trying Inforce WML lights mounted at 12:00, I much prefer them at 11:00.

I tried my InForce WML at 11 o'clock, but it interfered with my front sight, which I had to move back,



and I did not find it easy to activate. So I tried 9 o'clock and a bit further forward, with a cantilevered mount:



Worked much better for me.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by CD228:
My Troys are in the states and I am not, so help me out.

If I recall correctly, The only time you really need to use that button is to fold the sight down.

Correct.

Thanks

Thanks for all the replies, guys. That's some great info. I think I've decided on an 11 o'clock location, using either a KeyMod in-line mount or an offset off the top rail. Now just have to decide on the light (Inforce WML, Arisaka 300 series, Elzetta Bravo, etc). I definitely want it light weight. What's your experience in the ease of activating a push button light (e.g. using the Surefire Z68 clicky) vs the Inforce WML? To me, it seems the WML is a more natural/intuitive method.

Chris

quote:

Originally posted by Chris17404:
What's your experience in the ease of activating a push button light (e.g. using the Surefire Z68 clicky) vs the Inforce WML? To me, it seems the WML is a more natural/intuitive method.

Well, I have no experience with others with which to compare. The InForce WML, though: Mixed bag. When I first pick the rifle up it's a bit "tricky." But after operating it a few times it's fine.

One of the nice things about the WML, and I wish my APL was similar in this respect, is I can easily remove the light, so I don't have to deal with cleaning the lens after a range trip.

(Toothpaste, btw. Works a charm.)

I used to have tubular lights with push button tailcaps in ring mounts on several ARs. I found the WML in an 11:00 offset mount to be much more convenient and intuitive, so I've converted all my rifles to WMLs.

Two caveats, though:

1) A push tailcap light could potentially be a better option if you're one of those guys who plans to activate the light with something other than your thumb. I've seen some setups before where people have push tailcap lights positioned where they activate it with the side of their hand, or the knuckle of a finger. (Doesn't seem ideal to me, but it may work for them.) In those cases, some of the push tailcaps are more sensitive than the WML activation pad, and have a larger raised button that's easier to brush up against with one of these unconventional activation methods. The WML has to be positioned where your thumb can naturally reach and depress the relatively low-profile thumb pad.

2) A light with a remote pressure pad could potentially be a better option than a WML if you're having to mount the light in an unconventional location (like the underside or far side of the handguard). That way the activation pad can be positioned in a convenient area, even if the body of the light itself is not. With the WML, the pad is attached to the light, with no option for a remote pad.

RogueJSK nailed it, IMO, regarding the caveats.

I prefer the 12 o clock position by far. Easy to activate either hand and more importantly, no issues with right or left side cover. I like the rear sling attachment to be on the right with the sling going over the top of the stock, keeps it out of the way of my right shoulder and makes transitions easier.

Get the WML and mount at 12, you can always buy the 11o clock mount later if you don't like the 13 position.

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
I prefer the 12 o clock position by far. Easy to activate either hand and more importantly, no issues with right or left side cover. I like the rear sling attachment to be on the right with the sling going over the top of the stock, keeps it out of the way of my right shoulder and makes transitions easier.

Get the WML and mount at 12, you can always buy the 11o clock mount later if you don't like the 13 position.

What do you use as your front sight/BUIS?