Invest 17 minutes of your time. Trust me, it's worth it.

Very interesting watch. Oh the information and experience in that man's brain! I really liked the "don't clean it too often" comment. I tend to clean after every range trip (couple hundred rounds or so). Might rethink that. Also like the way he described cutting the barrel versus pulling a button. Clearly the many passes cutting a teeny tiny amount should be better. Did he say it might take 100 passes to cut the rifling in a barrel?

I love my Krieger Barrels. I believe that they are the most accurate barrels that I have used, and I have used a few very good barrels.


ARman

I like seeing the views of top barrel makers, especially Krieger and Bartlein. I don't recall if I've seen this video previously, although I've seen or read similar thoughts from Krieger. Krieger has been around the block -- he discusses barrel issues in trends and patterns, not absolutes.

My AR15 with the Krieger barrel is the most accurate AR15 I have owned to date. I have its replacement Krieger barrel in the basement, for when the current barrel is shot out.

quote:

Originally posted by cruiser68:
I really liked the "don't clean it too often" comment. I tend to clean after every range trip (couple hundred rounds or so). Might rethink that.

The barrel can tell you a lot, as can previous experience with other barrels.

I tend to clean after every shooting session, assuming at least 30-40 rounds have been shot. Unless there is a problem, I clean only with wet patches and cleaning solution -- I prefer not to use brushes or harsh chemicals. I rarely clean to the point that patches are coming out completely clean. Meaning that I'm still seeing some gray powder residue when I stop.

I have experienced 3 carbon rings in the 4 barrels I have shot out. The carbon rings degraded accuracy to the point I thought the barrels were suddenly shot out. When I eliminated the carbon rings, each barrel still had more life on it. So for me, the thing I'm looking for is a constriction -- however minute -- in the barrel just past the chamber. I have enough time on my various barrels that I'm pretty attuned to the beginning stages of carbon rings, especially with my AR15s.

Another thing to consider is the size of the bore, and if the cartridge approaches the "overbore" status. The relatively large bore of the 308 Win seems to be pretty tolerant of minimal cleaning. Drop down to a 6mm chambering (243 Win, 6x47, 6 Creedmoor), and regular cleaning likely becomes more important. But of course, it depends on the barrel.

YMMV. I suspect no two shooters clean exactly the same. And most of us have practices that get the job done.

There's a reason I only have Krieger barrels for my match rifles.

Thanks for the post, Para.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: NikonUser,

Thanks Para, Very nice to hear one of the very best.I loved what he said and how he said it. No absolutes. But a man with much experience and a ton of knowledge.

Thanks Para, this was great. "I let the barrel tell me" is the mindset of a straight shooter for sure. No preconceived/rote approach, recognizing each barrel has its own personality.

Yes, very informative.
The discussion of so-called mirage (heat waves) from the barrel and its effect on accuracy was worth the 17+ minutes itself.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
Yes, very informative.
The discussion of so-called mirage (heat waves) from the barrel and its effect on accuracy was worth the 17+ minutes itself.

That is the reason you see mirage shields on all F-class rifles on the line. I take mine off when the wind is blowing above 10MPH.

Even during load development, I have the mirage shield on the barrel.

I started a separate thread about mirage shields. I would be interested in a description of yours and the ones you see. (Please post there.)

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:
The discussion of so-called mirage (heat waves) from the barrel and its effect on accuracy....

I'm not convinced that mirage is the primary reason thin-profile barrels tend to lose accuracy as they heat up. I do believe there are accuracy issues with mirage from a warm-to-hot barrel, and I believe the mirage shields help maintain the accuracy demands of bench rest and F-Class competition.

Dad gave me his 1947 Winchester Model 70 in 270 Win. The thin profile barrel -- which is not free floated -- on this rifle is quite sensitive to heat and fouling. I once tried using a piece of aluminium Venetian blind, taped to the barrel as a heat shield, to help reduce mirage. It didn't make a difference in accuracy. The rifle likes to shoot with a fouled and cold barrel.

I've shot a number of pencil-profile barrel AR15s. All had some type of hand guard, some were very effective in eliminating heat/mirage from rising above the barrel. Every one of these small profile ARs suffered from barrel temperature accuracy changes. SCAR 16 and 17 are notorious for accuracy challenges at barrel temp changes.

I have tens of thousands of rounds through my own AR15s, using mid- to heavy-profile barrels. None of them have shown heat-related accuracy changes. I've had some of these barrels really hot, too. Hot enough to make the rails uncomfortably warm to touch bare handed.

My precision rifles have used Bartlein M24 profile barrels. To date, all four barrels have shot with the same accuracy hot or cold. They have been hot enough to be very uncomfortable to touch after long strings in training and competition. My 308 barrel probably was the hottest after a couple of extended moving target sessions. Probably 30-40 rounds at a rapid pace, with targets at 440 yards and 600 yards. No change in accuracy. I've tried to be a bit more gentle with my 6.5CM and have limited my mover practice to 20 rounds at a time -- still, a hot barrel and no change in accuracy.

Now maybe an accuracy change from barrel heat mirage could be detected on bench rest or F-Class targets, but it didn't matter on precision/tactical/steel targets.

Love the philosophy of listening to the barrel. I've seen a lot of different "personalities" in barrels out there.

Currently shooting an M14 with a Krieger barrel and it will keep em tight for sure. It's good to know Krieger is out there and make a wide variety of barrels for different guns.

Thanks for the heads up on the video, he seems like a great guy too.

I'd really loved to have been able to hear and learn from the Great Man himself, but my hearing machines can't get around all the extraneous noise.

Can anybody here please précis his message for me?