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When do you like a fixed 3 power optic? Login/Join 
Raised Hands Surround Us
Three Nails To Protect Us
Picture of Black92LX
posted
Just looking around at some different optics and have noticed the Primary Arms SLX micro prism line seems to get some good praise.
Looking at their site it looks like they are offering a fixed 3x model.
Seems like it is new as it is a preorder.

Just got me wondering when folks tend to like a fixed 3x setup.


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I think that when those dark voices start calling our name in the back of our head we need to remind those voices who we belong to!
Andrew Schwab - Project 86
 
Posts: 23500 | Registered: September 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I took my EoTech off of one of my ARs and bought a Vortex Spitfire 3x prism.
I have yet to shoot the rifle and zero it but just shouldering it and looking through the optic, I like it so far.
Jury is still out.


I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not.
 
Posts: 3160 | Location: The armpit of Ohio | Registered: August 18, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Wait, what?
Picture of gearhounds
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I’d think a 3x would be a good match to 100 yard/meter engagements and is still usable at closer ranges. I hunt with various .44 carbines at fairly close range (out to 50 yards) and not needed more than 3 power.




“Remember to get vaccinated or a vaccinated person might get sick from a virus they got vaccinated against because you’re not vaccinated.” - author unknown
 
Posts: 13714 | Location: Martinsburg WV | Registered: April 02, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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tl;dr? You have an AK.

Longer answer:

quote:
Originally posted by gearhounds:
I’d think a 3x would be a good match to 100 yard/meter engagements and is still usable at closer ranges. I hunt with various .44 carbines at fairly close range (out to 50 yards) and not needed more than 3 power.


This, but an AK (ala Rob Ski/AK Operators Union). He has some great videos on why a 3x prism makes sense for that rifle. I love the way he explains the "big red BLOP" and "caveman ACOG" with "paint the target with the bunny ears".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHzV4MEqxBI

Newest version of the kit he is using is here:

https://shop.akoperatorsunionl...3x.htm?categoryId=-1
 
Posts: 1785 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: April 24, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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I have never used a fixed 3× optic, so ignore or at least keep my comments in perspective, and keep in mind that I don’t know what situations you’d be using it in. Anyway, some thoughts:

When I got my first centerfire rifle, a Ruger model 77 in 270 Winchester, variable power scopes were still relatively unusual. Most common hunting scopes were fixed 4×, and were very popular. I have always been a bit of a contrarian, though, and chose a fixed 6× Lyman, part of my rationale being that I was living in Arizona where longer distance shots were likely. As it turned out, the scope was good for the then-very new sport of metallic silhouette shooting. On the other hand, I got my (only) semi-big game animal, a javelina, at a distance of 15 to 20 yards, and was lucky to do that when all I saw through the scope was a blurry patch of hair. So that taught me what most hunters knew at the time that for general use a fixed too-high power sight could be a significant handicap.

That was one of my very few big game hunts and the only successful one, so fast-forward several decades. When I became a member of my agency’s tactical team I realized I needed an optic for an AR and first decided that a low-powered variable would be best. At the time the options were limited and I was most familiar with Leupold scopes, so I settled on a 1.5-4× model, thinking that it would be good for a variety of situations. What I found, though, was that even at the lowest 1.5× setting, the distortion of the view through the scope due to the magnification made the sight difficult to use at very close room-clearing distances, and especially when scanning for threats. Shortly thereafter I switched to a nonmagnifying optic and have relied on such sights for close range use for the 15 or so years since.

If the hard choice is between too much or too little magnification, I will always choose less than more. Another example I point to is that until the availability of reliable variable power optics, US military snipers relied upon fixed 10× scopes and before that 8× and even less. Most precision rifle shooters these days would feel somewhat handicapped by such sights, but they were used successfully for decades.
There are definitely situations in which I would rather have more than less, but they are more for recreation than practicing for serious purposes.

Ultimately, though, the issue is: what do you anticipate using the scope for? If it’s for hunting at many typical ranges or many competitions, somewhat more power than 3× would probably be better. On the other hand, if it’s for close distance possible defensive purposes, that much magnification may be a handicap.




“Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.”
— Plato
 
Posts: 45451 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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IMO the best 3 power optic is a LPVO 1-6x.
 
Posts: 7278 | Location: Colorado | Registered: January 26, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Raised Hands Surround Us
Three Nails To Protect Us
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Not really looking at it for myself. I came across it looking at the 1X model.

I could not really come up with a scenario for myself where a fixed 3X would be beneficial for me.
But there are a number of fixed low power optics out there so was more curious what folks are actually using them for.


————————————————
I think that when those dark voices start calling our name in the back of our head we need to remind those voices who we belong to!
Andrew Schwab - Project 86
 
Posts: 23500 | Registered: September 06, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I use a TA01 ACOG and Elcan Specter regularly. Both are 4x. The Specter can be switched to 1x, but it spends most of it's time in the 4x position, for what I use it for. Neither optic is on a "home defense" gun. 4x seems to be a very usable magnification; it gives you enough zoom that you can use it to identify and engage at ranges beyond the capability of unmagnified optics, but is not so magnified that it's difficult to use at CQB ranges, even if you're focusing on the unilluminated reticle of the TA01. I have used 3x, in an Aimpoint magnifier; the same assessment applies to 3x, IMO. If I had to choose between 1x and 3 or 4x, I'd choose magnified every time, for outdoor use. As fritz says though, you can have it all in an LPVO. I don't care for Primary Arms as a general rule, due to their origin and aesthetics. I'd like to break into the contemporary LPVO world, with something like a Kahles, but haven't been able to afford it yet.
 
Posts: 903 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I found that the best value at price/performance is the Vortex Razor Gen II-E 1-6. Mine was just at a grand with discounts and love it on my AUG. My only complaint is that it’s not FFP, which is not a deal breaker since it’s only going to be on 1, 4 (100m and going for 8” plate so really just a matter of mastering holdovers and if you /have/ to, just remembering it’s 2/3rds of 6) and 6 (where the SFP is set to work 1:1 anyway).

I felt similarly to Primary Arms as you did, but some of the new FFP stuff they have coming out looks like really good glass. Getting some good marks from NTOA too. Another one that punches above its weight is the Rapid Reticle from Price Fowler.
 
Posts: 1785 | Location: New Mexico | Registered: April 24, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Sigless in
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quote:
Originally posted by Black92LX:
Not really looking at it for myself. I came across it looking at the 1X model.

I could not really come up with a scenario for myself where a fixed 3X would be beneficial for me.
But there are a number of fixed low power optics out there so was more curious what folks are actually using them for.



I know some guys who use them for competition where life isn't on the line and they are wanting to shave some weight off their rifle.

5 and 10k run and guns, tactical games type stuff.

Better target resolution and holdover from 100-400 yards and not terrible on close up paper.


I had an ACOG 3x. Great glass, decent reticle, terrible tracking and it never held great zero.

Sold it and went to a 1-6x Razor and never looked back. I hump the Razor at run and gun matches. The performance is worth the weight, I bought a good biathlon sling and that made a ton of difference.


IMHO people choose to omit some things that offer tremendous tangible benefits because they think it is too heavy. Meanwhile they certainly could cut weight elsewhere or find a better way to handle a little more weight.

A good chest rig for mags and gear and a good sling put all that weight in a place that makes it easy to bear.

I don't like a lot of weight on my hips.
 
Posts: 13780 | Location: The Edge of the Ozarks | Registered: December 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Smarter than the
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If you want to use a rifle at close range, ie inside, then a non magnified optic is highly recommended. If using a rifle outdoors at ranges from 20-400 yards, then magnified is much more useful. 3-4 power is usable in that range. The reason for a fixed power optic, to the best of my knowledge, is that it will generally be smaller, lighter, and with better eye relief/faster target acquisition than a variable power model.
 
Posts: 2997 | Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana | Registered: June 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Fighting the good fight
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I have an older Primary Arms 3x prismatic optic that I stuck on one of my mess-around ARs. I have a hard time envisioning where it would be a better option than a modern 1-4x LPVO.



It has the same limited eyebox of a LPVO, without the flexibility of the LPVO. Even the cost and weight savings of the fixed optic is negligible or nonexistent these days. The only real difference for many prismatics is the slightly smaller footprint of the prismatic optic.

So even if you plan on mainly using it at 3x magnification, I'd go with a 1-4x and just leave it on 3x. All things being equal, it's better to have the other magnification options and not need them, than need them and not have them.

quote:
Originally posted by honestlou:
If you want to use a rifle at close range, ie inside, then a non magnified optic is highly recommended.


If your magnified optic has an illuminated reticle, it can be used like a red dot at close ranges with a little bit of practice. Read up on the "Bindon aiming concept".

https://www.trijicon.com/our-s...indon-aiming-concept

However, if your rifle is only/primarily going to be used indoors, then you're correct that a non-magnified red dot optic is a better solution.

Or you can have your cake and eat it too, with a unmagnified red dot and a flip-to-side 3x magnifier. That's what I use on my serious defensive ARs.
 
Posts: 28995 | Location: Northwest Arkansas | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Smarter than the
average bear
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quote:
Originally posted by RogueJSK:


quote:
Originally posted by honestlou:
If you want to use a rifle at close range, ie inside, then a non magnified optic is highly recommended.


If your magnified optic has an illuminated reticle, it can be used like a red dot at close ranges with a little bit of practice. Read up on the "Bindon aiming concept".

https://www.trijicon.com/our-s...indon-aiming-concept

However, if your rifle is only/primarily going to be used indoors, then you're correct that a non-magnified red dot optic is a better solution.



I am familiar, but if I’m the hostage at 15 yards I sincerely hope my rescuer has a 1x dot and not a 4x ACOG using the “Bindon aiming concept”.
 
Posts: 2997 | Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana | Registered: June 20, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Or you can have your cake and eat it too, with a unmagnified red dot and a flip-to-side 3x magnifier.

It's not very good cake though. I find that the magnifier approach is a good enhancement to a CQB gun, but not nearly as nice as looking through a proper 4x fixed power or LPVO; it's not ideal for an outdoor gun.

quote:
I am familiar, but if I’m the hostage at 15 yards I sincerely hope my rescuer has a 1x dot and not a 4x ACOG using the “Bindon aiming concept”.

If I am taking a deliberate hostage shot, and I am equipped with an ACOG, I am not going to use the "bindon concept". I think Rogue's referring to snap shooting at center mass, in a room clearing context. No doubt 1x would be preferred though, in either case.
 
Posts: 903 | Location: Northeast GA | Registered: February 15, 2021Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Purveyor of Death
and Destruction
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I always keep a 16" 308 Aero Precision in my truck with a 1-6 LPVO. Its my get home gun Big Grin

I would like to try the 3X micro prism on it to see how I would like it (mainly for weight savings). I have magpul offset flip up sights for close in targets.

I have a 20" rifle at home with a 5-24 scope if I need to hit something in the next county. So I'm not real concerned about magnification with my truck gun. I've even considered running a red dot. But my astigmatism seems to he getting worse as I get older. This is another reason why I want to try the micro prism with the etched reticle.
 
Posts: 7093 | Location: Raymore, Missouri | Registered: June 24, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tupperware Dr.
Picture of GCE61
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I do like the Prism Reticle 3x & 4x scopes.
I still have conventional Aimpoint and Trijicon dots, but I've been transitioning to the ACOG and the Primary Arms ACSS reticle scopes.

(I'll try to post a pic tomorrow when I get back)
I've been shooting a TA31 ACOG with the ACSS reticle for a few years and find that I prefer it for everything from close in to extended ranges.

Then Primary Arms announced they were coming out with the SLx Micro Prism line with a modified ACSS style reticle.

I bought the SLx-1x Gemini for a 9mm carbine to see what it was like, and it was a vast improvement (for me) at all ranges I tried it at out to 150yds. The crisp reticle and holdovers made hitting plates easy. Shake awake illumination is a great feature.
On this model mounted on a PCC I used the PA supplied mount.

So then I ordered the SLx-3x Raptor for a 5.56 Carbine. I got one of the first shipments and really am impressed with the clarity and crispness for the money. The holdovers seem to be right on the money (shooting M855, 14.5" bbl with +1" @100yds), I shot out to 300 and impacts were right on the plates.
On this model I used a Midwest Industries QD lever mount for a TA33 mini ACOG.

The Primary Arms scopes have a diopter ring at the rear to dial in a crisp image. Also shake awake for the illuminated ring & chevron.

ETA:

This message has been edited. Last edited by: GCE61,
 
Posts: 3419 | Registered: December 28, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Master of one hand
pistol shooting
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I grew up hunting with 2.5 power Lyman Alaskan scopes. More recently with a 2.75 Redfield on my 338. Still have 2 Alaskans. One is "fixed" (no adjustments)



SIGnature
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Posts: 5827 | Location: Duckburg, OR | Registered: September 01, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Master of one hand
pistol shooting
Picture of Hamden106
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quote:
if it’s for close distance possible defensive purposes, that much magnification may be a handicap.


One hunt with a 3-9 Leupold I turned to 9x and watched a group of 15-20 does and one buck come straight at me. They were in a clear area walking towards me standing in a tree area. I waited until they were real close. Scope was still on 9x and useless to find the buck so close. All I could see was deer hair. No deer today....



SIGnature
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Posts: 5827 | Location: Duckburg, OR | Registered: September 01, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Quiet Man
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Pretty much never. I want no magnification or plenty of magnification. I've got a fixed 2.5x Leuopold on a Savage Scout, but that rifle will never be used for any kind of up close fast shooting or out past about 200 yards. It's just a bang around brush gun I don't mind abusing but don't shoot enough to justify buying a better scope. I'd put a 1-6x on it if I ever intended to use the gun for anything serious.
 
Posts: 2359 | Registered: November 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by fritz:
IMO the best 3 power optic is a LPVO 1-6x.



100% this.


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"AND YEA THOUGH THE HINDUS SPEAK OF KARMA, I IMPLORE YOU...GIVE HER A BREAK, LORD". - Clark W. Griswald
 
Posts: 2194 | Location: The South | Registered: September 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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