Centurion Arms CM4 Rifle

June 16, 2020, 08:07 AM

RHINOWSO

They have a great reputation over on M4C, the owner is a retired SEAL and unlike some companies who trumpet that via slick marketing / social media, they just keep a low profile and make kick ass stuff. They started with rails and barrels, then seemed to spiral up into full rifle builds over time. Mr Guns and Gear did a review on the CM4 and he REALLY liked it, very accurate if I recall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3myEt3jGc-U

I have several Centurion Arms rails but nothing else (yet). I see them as a very solid duty rifle in the $1200-ish range.

June 16, 2020, 08:49 AM

Mike S

I've got a Centurion rail that's very solid. I've been thinking about one of their Mk12 uppers. Seems like they make really good stuff.

June 16, 2020, 08:54 AM

Chris17404

I have discussed their hammer-forged barrels with Corrie (Monty's wife, and extremely helpful). The barrels are made from machine gun steel, a double-thickness chrome lining, and a slightly tapered bore which gets tighter closer to the muzzle. This increases accuracy. Corrie says users have been reporting 1"-1.25" groups with their LW barrels. Some of Mr Guns N Gear's groups were nearly half that. This will be my next upper.

June 16, 2020, 09:37 AM

fritz

quote:
Originally posted by Chris17404:
The barrels are made from machine gun steel, a double-thickness chrome lining, and a slightly tapered bore which gets tighter closer to the muzzle. This increases accuracy.

I am not aware of any precision barrel maker who changes the diameter of the bore over the length of the barrel. For maximum accuracy they cut their barrels with ridiculously tight tolerances of consistent bore diameters from chamber to muzzle.

I am not aware of any precision barrel maker who chrome lines their barrels to increase accuracy. On the contrary, chrome lining decreases accuracy, as it cannot be laid down in the bore without some inconsistencies in thickness.

June 16, 2020, 09:46 AM

Chris17404

quote:
Originally posted by fritz:
I am not aware of any precision barrel maker who...

Just relaying what Corrie told me and the info that's available on their website. Perhaps my statement that "this increases accuracy" was misleading. It's solely the bore taper that's claimed to lead to better accuracy.

June 16, 2020, 01:29 PM

JoshNC

quote:
Originally posted by fritz:
quote:
Originally posted by Chris17404:
The barrels are made from machine gun steel, a double-thickness chrome lining, and a slightly tapered bore which gets tighter closer to the muzzle. This increases accuracy.

I am not aware of any precision barrel maker who changes the diameter of the bore over the length of the barrel. For maximum accuracy they cut their barrels with ridiculously tight tolerances of consistent bore diameters from chamber to muzzle.

I am not aware of any precision barrel maker who chrome lines their barrels to increase accuracy. On the contrary, chrome lining decreases accuracy, as it cannot be laid down in the bore without some inconsistencies in thickness.

You are approaching this through the wrong lens. This is a fighting carbine, not a precision rifle. That it’s capable of relatively precise shooting is a boon, not it’s mission statement.

Taper bore is common among European firearms with CHF barrels - HK 416, SIG 55x, B&T, FN.

Not all chrome lining is created equal. There is one company in particular that very uniformly applies chrome lining to the bore. I’ve spoken with the owner and it’s very very slick what he’s accomplished.

You seem to approach everything through the lens of precision rifle matches. And that’s fine. It just doesn’t translate to this particular topic.

June 16, 2020, 01:33 PM

Slippery Pete

I think very highly of their stuff, no firsthand experience. A Recce upper is on my list for someday.

Bartocci has said they are working on a 308. I'm very excited to see what is put out. Everything they do is top notch.

June 16, 2020, 01:40 PM

fritz

quote:
Originally posted by JoshNC:
You seem to approach everything through the lens of precision rifle matches. And that’s fine. It just doesn’t translate to this particular topic.

Chris17404 specifically stated "This increases accuracy." I addressed that statement.

Yes, I do shoot rifle matches, many of which are precision competitions. I also send a lot of rounds down range each year, via multiple rifles. In high-volume competitions, in harsh weather conditions, I see what functions and doesn't function.

June 16, 2020, 03:54 PM

RHINOWSO

Accuracy Police - please get a room to discuss the finer points of accuracy and remedial accuracy speakish, please.

Otherwise we'll get yet another thread on the subject, which by itself is fine, but does it have to be in every rifle thread...? I think not.

OT, the CM4 seems like a pretty accurate AR-15 rifle for its intended purposes.

June 16, 2020, 06:01 PM

Lefty Sig

I went to school with Corrie since about 4th grade, and Monty moved to our high school as a junior. I saw them in Coronado Island in 2011 and went to beach on base. When Monty retired they moved to Brown County, Indiana and set up shop.

Great people, and Monty is very low key about his service. He'll talk about it but you have to ask.

I'd trust him on how to build a real fighting rifle.

June 26, 2020, 07:44 PM

kimberkid

This thread has been very enlightening ... had it not been for the discussion I'd have wondered why anyone would give Centurion a 2nd look ...

The first time I saw a Centurion was just after the AWB was passed, 94-96 at a Kansas City river front show ... they were skinny barreled demilled M16's with new receivers. The hammer had the hook ground off as well as the tang cut off the back of the sear ... and some sort of a flash hider or comp was welded 3/4 around the barrel as to get around the threaded barrel, but to maintain the look ... furniture was mostly triangle handguards and A1 stocks without the trapdoor. All had the battle-field look, which is popular now, but then they were mostly considered obsolete ... a lot of people still looked down their nose at the "Mouse Gun"

Maybe this is a different/new company, or maybe they've just evolved, either way, kudos.

June 26, 2020, 08:29 PM

mesabi

quote:
Maybe this is a different/new company, or maybe they've just evolved, either way, kudos.

I know those guns you're talking about; the Centurion Arms being discussed is very much a different company.

June 26, 2020, 09:07 PM

JoshNC

quote:
Originally posted by kimberkid:
This thread has been very enlightening ... had it not been for the discussion I'd have wondered why anyone would give Centurion a 2nd look ...

The first time I saw a Centurion was just after the AWB was passed, 94-96 at a Kansas City river front show ... they were skinny barreled demilled M16's with new receivers. The hammer had the hook ground off as well as the tang cut off the back of the sear ... and some sort of a flash hider or comp was welded 3/4 around the barrel as to get around the threaded barrel, but to maintain the look ... furniture was mostly triangle handguards and A1 stocks without the trapdoor. All had the battle-field look, which is popular now, but then they were mostly considered obsolete ... a lot of people still looked down their nose at the "Mouse Gun"

Maybe this is a different/new company, or maybe they've just evolved, either way, kudos.

Different company. Centurion wasn’t around back then. You’re likely thinking of Century.

June 26, 2020, 10:43 PM

RHINOWSO

quote:
Originally posted by kimberkid:
This thread has been very enlightening ... had it not been for the discussion I'd have wondered why anyone would give Centurion a 2nd look ...

The first time I saw a Centurion was just after the AWB was passed, 94-96 at a Kansas City river front show ... they were skinny barreled demilled M16's with new receivers. The hammer had the hook ground off as well as the tang cut off the back of the sear ... and some sort of a flash hider or comp was welded 3/4 around the barrel as to get around the threaded barrel, but to maintain the look ... furniture was mostly triangle handguards and A1 stocks without the trapdoor. All had the battle-field look, which is popular now, but then they were mostly considered obsolete ... a lot of people still looked down their nose at the "Mouse Gun"

Maybe this is a different/new company, or maybe they've just evolved, either way, kudos.

Centurion vs Century.

Not remotely the same company.

June 27, 2020, 02:15 PM

kimberkid

quote:
Originally posted by mesabi:
<snip>
I know those guns you're talking about; the Centurion Arms being discussed is very much a different company.

quote:
Originally posted by JoshNC:
<snip>
Different company. Centurion wasn’t around back then. You’re likely thinking of Century.

quote:
Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
<snip>

Centurion vs Century.

Not remotely the same company.

Maybe it was called the Century Centurion ... but I distinctly remember it said Centurion on the side of the receiver ...

The reason I thought maybe they had evolved was because pre-ban DPMS were the absolute bottom of the barrel at one time their receivers used to look like they were sand-cast ... then a year or so after the AWB passed even DPMS pre-ban stuff skyrocketed, but over the years they evolved into a mid-tier AR.

June 28, 2020, 03:06 PM

ifithitu

Thanks for sharing your link Rhinowso

June 29, 2020, 06:47 AM

mr228

Thank you for the replies so far. I have been emailing back and forth with Corrie at Centurion Arms. She is awesome. I will be buying one of their complete rifles when their next shipment of barrels arrives hopefully soon. Before I get bored and buy something else.