Any feedback on the Kahr M1?

Looking for a shooter, not a collector.

Their history of poor reliability and quality control, and significant use of non-USGI parts, makes that a hard no for me.

Stick to USGI.

Keep your eyes on the CMP Forum or Gunboards forum for a decent USGI carbine made by Inland*, the most common USGI manufacturer. Even go with an import-marked one if you're just interested in it as shooter and are willing to take the hit to its collectors value. (Just be aware that some Blue Sky import marked carbines had the import mark stamped so vigorously that it bent the barrel, so that's something to watch out for on those.)

With enough patience and luck, you could still find a USGI carbine at a reasonable price.

*Note that when I say Inland I'm not talking about the new production "Inland Manufacturing" M1 Carbines. A company bought the Inland trademark and started making new production commercial M1 carbines a few years back.

Thank you. Good info.
Didn't that Israeli IMI put some out as well?

quote:

Originally posted by mike56:
Didn't that Israeli IMI put some out as well?

Close. Some commercial M1 Carbine clones were produced in the late 1990s by a Texas company called Israeli Arms International (IAI), not IMI from Israel: http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_iai.html

As the IAI history at that link so succinctly puts it:

quote:

Because of the presence of "Israel" in the company name, IAI has frequently been confused with Israel Military Industries (IMI), the civilian sales division of the military weapons manufacturer for the nation of Israel.

There have been over three dozen companies that produced commercial M1 carbine clones since the end of WW2: http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbines.html

For the most part, quality and reliability has been worse for the various commercial carbines than original USGI carbines.

I owned a Universal clone years ago. It was fine but I sold it when prices for carbine ammo began to increase.

How about the new Inland Mfg company and their M1 carbines? I know when they came out there was some back and forth on how good they were. I've been kicking around getting one since that is what my Grandfather carried in Europe 1944-5. I know CMP is the best option, but most I've seen at some point had a bayonet lug added, and those didn't get fielded until after WW2.
https://www.inland-mfg.com/Inl...arbines/M1-1944.html

What about Fulton Armory? For $2400 I would expect VERY high quality.

https://www.fulton-armory.com/carbineuscal30m1.aspx

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:
What about Fulton Armory? For $2400 I would expect VERY high quality.

https://www.fulton-armory.com/carbineuscal30m1.aspx

I don't think I've ever heard anything about about Fulton's quality, but honestly, for the money... I think one can still do a lot better looking around for a USGI carbine that isn't beat to hell. They're still out there, and I mean as a shooter, not a collector.

A fair amount of the M1 carbine's accuracy is in the stock and handguard. If one wanted a good shooter, one could find one with a decent barrel with the rest of it in any other condition including thrashed wood and then buy a new Boyd's.

quote:

Originally posted by IrishWind:
How about the new Inland Mfg company and their M1 carbines? I know when they came out there was some back and forth on how good they were.

That's what I had heard too. Same as nearly every other commercial carbine, quality was hit or miss, and parts weren't 100% USGI compatible.

But I haven't really kept up with them since their introduction.

quote:

I know CMP is the best option, but most I've seen at some point had a bayonet lug added, and those didn't get fielded until after WW2.

That's still part of that carbine's history. If you really want to, the Type III barrel band with lug isn't challenging to remove. You'd just have to invest in a front sight removal tool to get the Type III band off. Then you'd be free to install a Type I or II barrel band without a bayonet lug.

And technically, the Type III barrel band did see service at the tail end of WW2. It was adopted in Fall 1944, and all carbines produced starting roughly November 1944 had it from the factory. There are a few photos of it in late WW2 service in the PTO, like this one taken in May 1945:



And these two taken just prior to the Battle of Iwo Jima around February 1945:

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:
What about Fulton Armory? For $2400 I would expect VERY high quality.

Yep, Fulton is an exception to the rule about the iffy quality of commercial carbines. (As one would hope for the price tag.)

Still, $2400 will get you a very nice USGI carbine in fantastic condition, so there's little reason to go the Fulton route.

I have a Kahr repro.

It had feeding issues early. I played around with some things trying to get it to feed correctly. At the time I lived in a 10 round state so I was stuck with the supplied mags. Once I could get some decent GI mags the feed issues went away.

I didn't like the style of the sights or the pushbutton safety. I swapped the sights to what are more M1 Carbine like and switched the safety to the swinging bar style that I prefer. I know it isn't called that but I don't know what it is called.lol

It is actually made very nicely. Nothing looks GI to me but it all seems well made and fits well.

Honestly now that I stick to good mags I would buy another without concern. I know that goes against the wisdom but there it is. I also like that I can shoot the hell out of it because it has zero collector interest whatsoever.

The M1 Carbine is outdated but it is an exceptionally handy little rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
I didn't like the style of the sights or the pushbutton safety. I swapped the sights to what are more M1 Carbine like and switched the safety to the swinging bar style that I prefer. I know it isn't called that but I don't know what it is called.lol

Just flip safety. I have two carbines, both made in 1944, both all have all correct parts for their time, but one has a push button safety and the other a flip safety. I had the one with the flip safety for many years before I got the other, and thinking I'd have a preference for the early features, I found to my surprise that I like the flip safety better also. Minor quibbles, but part of what makes the M1 Carbine interesting to me is the myriad different details.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
I also like that I can shoot the hell out of it because it has zero collector interest whatsoever.

While this is true, the counter to this for me is that with what .30 carbine has cost since I got into it, it's not like I'm going to be shooting one enough to put any appreciable wear on it anyway. Getting the stocks scratched or dented going into or coming out of the safe is a bigger worry to me.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
The M1 Carbine is outdated but it is an exceptionally handy little rifle.

For the firepower, it's hard to think of many guns that compete with it in that size and weight. Honestly, I think with 110gr hollowpoints, fresh springs and good mags, one wouldn't be appreciably undergunned in quite a few scenarios. Yeah, I know, queue someone laying the AR card down on the table, but as per JlJones' thread and just about everyone I know, most people aren't running around with 5-6lb guns anyway.

As noted, it's probably best to find an original GI carbine, if you don't want the hassle of correcting the problems common in the newly manufactured carbines. I've read that Kahr and the (new) Inland both use receivers and various parts from the same manufacturers, and have some of the same problems and spotty quality. However, Inland does seem to take a little more care in correcting some issues and putting together the final product. The Fulton Armory carbines are very, very nice, but as someone noted, are pretty pricey. Their receivers are made by Lewis Machine & Tool; you can also get one with an original receiver if it's to be used for CMP competition.

Flip safety. Yea that sounds better, I couldn’t come up with that to save my life. The push button safety just seemed too easy to drop a mag, the flip style is more bueno.

True about ammo costs. This rifle screams out reloading.

It is truly a lightweight dream. 2 mags on the buttstock and you still are crazy lightweight. There aren’t many scenarios where it would make me feel undergunned. Truth is though that I’m as tactical as a hydration bladder so there is that. It feels like carrying a pillow it is so handy.

This thread has been interesting for me. I missed the boat on the cheap carbines...that was college for me, or young married life, then kids, a mortgage, etc. By the time I had some disposable income to spend on gun stuff, the CMP was done selling them and the commercial market was up over $1k for even a beater.

I've considered a Kahr, and while they're a bit cheaper than a GI, that's still a lot of money, especially for something with a questionable reputation. It's kind of encouraging to hear that pedro's experience with GI mags was positive, though.

I've never had a chance to even shoot a carbine,. much less put one on paper. I got rid of my Mini-14 last year because it was putting up worse than paper plate groups at 100 yards, and I couldn't live with that. Can one expect anything better out of a carbine, or is that going to be pretty similar?

Even if it can't beat the Mini for accuracy, at least there's still some historical significance there that would make it fun.

As to ammo, I actually have everything I need to reload for .30 carbine in the basement right now...even a set of RCBS dies that I picked up used somewhere for $15. I've been saving all the brass I find, and somebody gave me some 110gr .30 cal projectiles a while back. It's like I'm destined to own one...just haven't found it yet.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
I've never had a chance to even shoot a carbine,. much less put one on paper. I got rid of my Mini-14 last year because it was putting up worse than paper plate groups at 100 yards, and I couldn't live with that. Can one expect anything better out of a carbine, or is that going to be pretty similar?

Paper plate groups at 100 yards is easily doable with a M1 Carbine (shooter dependent).

Most non-beat-to-hell carbines should be capable of shooting a 3ish inch group at 100 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
I got rid of my Mini-14 last year because it was putting up worse than paper plate groups at 100 yards, and I couldn't live with that. Can one expect anything better out of a carbine, or is that going to be pretty similar?

It's been many years since I've shot an M1 carbine. That rifle was decidedly not accurate.

With a Mini 14, one can at least buy a newer heavy barrel version and install the accustrut -- and improve the accuracy for shorter ranges. I don't know if there are similar fixes for the M1 carbine. History means nothing to me if the gun can't hit what I aim at.

My father has a US Postal Meter, Arlington..(Ordnance? Armory?) re-import that will shoot tennis ball sized groups at 100 yards off rest.

I have an Inland (CMP return, FAT) but I don't know that I've ever tried to shoot groups with it.



Slight Mini drift... funny, when I was a kid my father took me into a local store and showed me a Mini-14 and an M1 carbine and asked me which one we should buy. I said "What's the difference?" He said the M1 we could plink with, the Mini-14 would could plink and also hunt chucks with. I loved woodchuck hunting so I said "That one." People laugh at the idea, be he put a good scope mount on it, handloaded for it and mostly shot it like a bolt action and took woodchucks out to a couple hundred yards with it. It wasn't till I was older that I leaned most of them didn't shoot that well.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
I have a Kahr repro...

Same here, I shoot it as a fun "novelty gun." Kahr mags work, so do USGI milsurp (which I had to clean first).

I usually shoot Korean milsurp at 25 yards, I don't get 1" groups but I'm happy with the rifle. I have ARs for SHTF.

Kahr, I wouldn’t consider them at all. Bad personal experience with one of their products that was out of warranty and the customer service response.

FFL/SOT here,

sold a pile Kahr's, no issues, no drama, and the people that bought them knew what they were buying,


Arlington Ordnance/Blue Sky/Samco imports varied greatly on condition, all worked, and would benefit having springs replaced, but worked, some of the Samco stuff had 3rd world country spliced/repaired stocks, if that matters,


at one time you could get an imported or mixmaster Carbine for the same price as a Kahr ,

not so much anymore,