I’m thinking I’d like to try my hand at long-ish range shooting. Hoping folks with experience can point me in the right direction. And hoping for pointers on a cost effective and fun/useful setup to eventually do some longe range competitions(prs type on local/regional level). I’m slowly working my way through the Long range rifle discussion thread. If there’s something else you’d recommend, feel free to comment.

I thought I’d start with a rifle, bipod, scope, and some training. My only experience shooting longer ranges was one all-Navy match years ago with an AR. That and LMG’s, anyway.

I don’t want to start out by dumping a crapload of cash (custom action/barrel in chassis) in this to start and find I don’t enjoy it. And I don’t want to use cheap gear that’s so bad I won’t enjoy it. I’m struggling with finding a balance here since I strongly believe in buy once cry once, but I know this is just a starting point. I’m trying to stay in a 2500 budget or if I need to go higher I can save a little longer. I’m thinking 6.5 Creedmoor or .308.

I’ve considered a few options based on some research online:

1. A (used rental from a shooting school with about 1k through it) .308 Remington 700 w/heavy barrel, bell and Carlson stock, Harris bipod, and a mk4 4-14x50 mildot with MOA turrets SFP scope for about 1800.

2. New 6.5 or .308 700 PCR and a vortex ffp Mrad scope with Harris bipod and maybe some other stuff would run under 2500.

3.Ruger rpr in 6.5 and the same vortex/ Harris combo for a litttle more than number 3.

4. PVA John Hancock rifle in 6.5 and a basic vortex/bipod would run at least 3k.

5. Keep an eye on snipers hide/sigforum classifieds for quality (bighorn/defiance type) used gear.

Sorry bout the rambling diatribe, that tends to be how I talk.. And I research and think too much.

Question:
Which is the best starting setup fo a beginner in long range shooting?

Choices:
Used 308 Rem 700 and gear
New 6.5/.308 Rem 700 and gear
New 6.5/.308 RPR and gear
6.5/.308 John Hancock and gear
Look for quality used gear in classifieds

 

Buy the best rifle/scope you can afford. Only you can determine what your budget is. I can tell you from first hand experience that a factory Rem 700 and RPR, although acceptably accurate, will leave you wanting more out of the rifle. There is never a lack of quality used rifles on the Hide for sale. If your budget allows it, that is the route I would take. If you decide you don't like it, someone else has already taken the hit and you could sell it for what you paid.

With quality factory ammo available, I don't see any reason to purchase a .308 these days. Personally I no longer own any rifles in .308. I would hook up with some local guys who shoot PRS or similar comps and learn from them. You'd be surprised at how eager they are to help a new shooter out.

"mildot with MOA turrets"

I'm not a mildot guy so I don't know if you like this combo or are used to it but I *Hated* it.
I paid good money to have the reticle changed so the turrets and the reticle speak the same language.

Tikka CTR with your choice of scope but like KMitch said stick with Mil/Mil or Moa/Moa not mixed

I’m not a fan of mixed mildot/moa. That why I didn’t jump on the used rifle.

Im no long range expert but one thing I learned is mil/moa is bs. Pick one. Im in the process of ditching my MOA scopes to go all mil.

Not sure how long range you want to go. But if you want to get your feet wet, you could get a CZ bolt action .17 HMR pretty cheap, put a great scope on it, try it out and if you like it, go after a nice centerfire rifle and move the scope. If you don't you can sell the CZ and the scope and recoup most of your money. .17 HMR ammo is pretty cheap and shots out to 400 yards with it are attainable.

Definitely not going the smaller calibers like.17 hmr. I’d like to actually eventually do some 600-800 yard or more shooting with a bolt gun. Ive been happy til now that my national match Rock River can shoot inside the aiming black. Some days I can’t, but the rifle can. Granted it’s a much larger target. It uses iron sights and the aiming black (7-x rings) is 96 inches at 600 yards.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: buddy357,

I'll do this in stages. First, the caliber.

308 Winchester is workhorse caliber. It's been around for quite awhile, it does a lot of things well, ammo manufacturers & reloaders know how to load it, ammo is generally available throughout the worst panics, and prices for match ammo are slowly falling.

But newer calibers are better for many applications, in particular target shooting. A number of 6.5mm and 6.0mm bores beat the 308 in virtually all things target -- less recoil, flatter trajectory, and less wind deflection. The only real downside to the smaller bores is lower barrel life. A 308 will give you at least 5,000 accurate rounds, maybe 6,000 to 7,000. Figure 3,000 to 4,000 rounds for a 6.5mm. Depending on the powder capacity, a 6mm will give you 1,800 to 2,500 rounds. Understand that a lot of people never even put 1,000 rounds on any rifle they ever own.

A lot of what makes the smaller bores work is the bullets and their high ballistic coefficients ("BC"). The venerable 308 175 gr SMK bullet as a G1 BC of .505 -- decent, but no longer great. The newer Sierra TMK 175 has a .530 G1. Nice, but the TMK doesn't work well with a lot of chambers, as it appears the bullet doesn't tolerate jumps very well. The TMKs don't shoot well in my 308. Hornady's 178 ELD has a G1 of .552, however I don't know how it performs in my rifle.

Hornady's 140 ELD-M bullet has a .610 G1, and it shoots really well in my 6.5 Creedmoor rifle. If you like heavy bullets, Hornady's 147 ELD-M has a .697 G1.

I'm not as familiar with the heavier 6mm bullets, but their BCs are pretty close to those of the 6.5s.

The 223 bullets I use in competition are Hornady, with .395 G1.

.17 HMR is just about the worst round for long distance shooting. The 17 grain Vmax has a .125 G1. That's in the ballpark of 9mm handgun bullets. Even a 40 grain 22lr bullet has a better BC than the .17 HMR.

6.5 Creedmoor is the new 308, although there are those to refuse to accept that change.

You will like it assuming you have a place to shoot, all mine have dried up and I hate it. I started by trying out some of my BIL’s custom jobs. When I bought I went with a Sako TRG-22 in .308 with a Leupold something - 25x42 scope. Outstanding set up for me. Shooting 600 yds( the best I had available) was not problem. My son caught the fever and went with a Ruger PR in 6.5 creedmoor with a Vortex HD Razor something - 27x42 and added a Atlas bipod. Again 600 yds were no problem. You’d like either setup. Unfortunately for us, all the distance ranges in our area have closed down. Without driving a couple of hours each way, there’s nothing around. Probably have to sale everything before long.

On to the rifle. Remington factory rifles can be really accurate, or only so-so. The actions sometimes aren't all that square and the barrels can be just OK. A good 'smith can square the action (also known as blueprinting) and make it a great shooter.

I have briefly shot a Ruger RPR and seen a few in competition. Pretty respectable rifles.

I have briefly shot a Tika -- I really fine rifle, with accuracy pretty close to my pricey custom rig.

Bergara's rifle seems pretty good for the money, but I haven't shot one.

Used rifles can be a good option. Having a chance to shoot the rifle is a good idea. Knowing the owner helps, too.

I don't know anything about the PVA rifle.

Scopes. Read the rifle scope primer thread at the top of the rifle forum page.

Tailor the scope to your shooting needs. A scope for paper targets at fixed distances, with spotters to mark you scores, is one type of scope. A different type of scope is optimized for multiple steel targets at varying distances with nobody to provide feedback about your hits and misses. Your preferred target type matters before diving into some types of optics choices.

I recommend choosing clearer glass over higher magnification, if economics require the tradeoff. Sure, higher power tends to help us print tiny holes in paper, but it the glass is murky it won't make that much difference. Seeing objects clearly, with a good reticle, does make a difference. I shot steel targets for a few years out to 1200 yards with a scope that topped out at 15x. The glass was clear enough that I could spot impacts on painted steel and misses on dirt at 1200 yards.

Consider if you want first focal plane (ffp) or second focal plane (sfp) reticle. See my second paragraph above, as your shooting preferences help determine which way to go.

Mils versus MOA is an ongoing debate. Both are angular measurement, both can be equally accurate. Communicating impact locations with other shooters can be deciding factor, especially if you shoot the same bullet at the same velocity as your regular shooting buddies. Otherwise you should have your own ballistics dope for your own rifle. When someone says he held either .5 mils or 3 MOA of wind, it means little if your bullet doesn't have similar ballistics. Experienced shooters will state that they held for an 8 mph wind and there's a downdraft from the nearby ridge which requires increasing elevation by a couple of clicks. Once you have such environmental feedback, your angular measurement system can be anything.

There's no need to buy a scope that doesn't have the same scale (MOA vs. Mil) for both the turrets and the reticle. Leupold was infamous for putting mil reticles on scopes with MOA dials. S&B did it, too.

For training, look at Accuracy1st. They run a great weekend saturation training program with an incredible instructor. I’ve been twice.

I have a 300 WM Remington 700 5R with a Burris XTRII. I can get it to shoot 3/4” at 100 yards, and I don’t think I’m all that good, so the rifle must be plenty capable. I’ve had it out to 1000 yards, which was really fun. I put a Tinmey trigger in it, best investment yet. I have maybe $1800 into the whole thing. Better glass is my next project.

The parts collection has started. Happened to check classifieds on the hide last week right after this was posted. Used Bighorn TL3 with 6.5 creedmore barrel from PVA and a trigger tech special for about $50 more than the cost of a new TL3 action. He says with 650 rounds fired, but for the price I took the chance. [IMG:left] [/IMG]

since you are in Baltimore, go down to Quantico on weekends and see what the guys are shooting,

may help with equipment search ,


there is a guy in the hometown section on arfcom that posts dates and times, and I know another guy that shoots vintage military sniper stuff there as well,(he haunts gunboards/cmp and some other forums, goes by milprileb) and I think both are RO's
and willing to help new shooters,