Looking at either of these and trying to figure out the differences. I know both come in various barrel lengths and can be had with various lowers that can take different mags, so those are common elements. What I’ve found so far is:

- SPC has a separate handguard. APC has a monolithic upper with handguard part of upper.

- SPC has a front mounted charging handle and a rear AR style charging handle. APC has only the front CH. Both are non-reciprocating.

- SPC has a buffer tube that extends past the rear, so only collapsible type stock/brace options. APC doesn’t, so can use folding stock/brace

- SPC recoil mechanism is hydraulic buffer only (not 100% sure about this), while APC is recoil spring and hydraulic buffer?

- SPC seems to be a little cheaper than a comparable APC.

Anything I’ve missed? Leaning toward the SPC9 pistol since it’s a little cheaper and folding vs. collapsible stock/brace isn’t that important to me. Thoughts?

I'm a B&T addict but I don't own an SPC9 to comment from first person experience. So this is really just what I have gathered just casually following its release as an interested person in all of the companies products.
The only reason I can think of why you would want an SPC is that for some reason the AR style charging handle is vitally important to you. That's really why they designed and built it.
To get that you have to suffer having a buffer tube of some kind sticking out the back of the gun. Thus you give up many of the plusses of the APC stock situation including much better and more compact stock options (there are like 10 of them). And if you really want AR stocks one of the options is a buffer tube. The APC recoil system does have a recoil spring just to answer your question. The ability to change handguard lengths might be a plus assuming that different options are actually obtainable. Its not clear to me how realistic barrel changes are on the SPC. It's technically possible on an APC but its not realistic. Using the APC lower has all the pluses and minuses of that. You can pick different mags (currently 5 I think, I have glock, SIG, HK and B&T, but I think there is walthar as well though I have never seen it in B&T usa parts list). You can use many (but not all AR triggers). You have to fix the safety with the HBI part if you are right handed IMO. IMO if you want to spend a bit less and AR controls compatability is not a big need I would look at the GHM9 which fixes a bunch of the APC limitations like barrel swaps.
Edited to add I have lots of 9mm guns like these and the APC still stands out as my favorite. But the downside is its pricy in aggregate.

I own a pair of APC9s (one standard 6" barrel, and one long 9" barrel). My brother loved shooting them so much he went out and bought a SPC9. All of them are SBR'd. After I've shot my brother's SPC9, I'm glad I have the APC9, and highly recommend those.

The APC9 has multiple lower options, multiple stock options and is much lighter and more handy. The controls are generally better positioned and easier to use.

The only reason to get an SPC9 is if commonality of manual of arms is very important to you. For the most part, the APC9 is pretty AR-ish, but the side folding charging handle is superior to the AR style. I was kinda surprised how heavy the SPC9 was, and the stock was borderline uncomfortable (all dual post metal stocks suffer from this same problem, from AKs to HKs, and the SPC9 is no exception).

I'm not sure I really notice a difference in recoil between the two. The recoil systems are more or less identical. I also don't think there's too much of a price difference between the two. I recommend getting on B&T's mailing list, and keeping an eye out for their occasional specials and BLEMs, and you can get a pretty good deal.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Shackelford,

My understanding is that both the SPC9 and the APC9 pro use the same lower, so controls and mag options should be identical. Also, according to the B&T web page, the SPC9 pistol (9” barrel, AR type buffer tube) weighs 4.8 pounds. The APC9 pistol (6.8” barrel) weighs 4.9 pounds. Assuming they aren’t lying, that makes the APC9 slightly heavier with a shorter barrel. I’m guessing the monolithic upper is a little heavier on the APC9.

https://bt-usa.com/products/apc9-pistol/

https://bt-usa.com/products/spc9-pistol/

The SPC9 PDW Pistol with a 6.5” barrel is 5.2 pounds, but that obviously included the weight of the telescoping arm brace, so it’s not really a direct comparison with the APC9 pistol that doesn’t have anything on the rear end.

My main driver between the two for me is price. I’m looking at a SPC9 pistol for a little over $2K before tax. A APC9 Pro pistol is $150 or so more. Putting a stock or brace on the SPC would essentially be “free” for me since I have plenty of left over AR braces and stocks. Adding a stock or brace to the APC pistol would probably involve extra money on top of the price of the gun. Agreed the APC 9 has a lot of stock options, but some of them, especially the ones from B&T, are ridiculous at over $600. Personally, I don’t really care about the charging handle. I’ll probably use the forward charging handle, which seems the same as the one on the APC, so not having a rear charging handle isn’t worth the extra price to me. Having a fully folding stock instead of a buffer tube isn’t that big of a deal to me either. I don’t plan to shoot with the stock folded or collapsed, and don’t plan to store or carry is somewhere that a couple of extra inches makes any difference.

I get why the SPC was developed. It wasn’t an organic design that B&T developed to improve on the APC9. It was simply the APC design modified to bid on a contract that specified AR type controls. Not designed to be better than the APC, not designed to be worse, just different to meet a certain specification. I guess my decision boils down to why should I pay extra for an APC over the SPC? What am I getting for the extra bucks? The lowers are the same, the quality and accuracy seem to be about the same, and the recoil seems similar (some say the SPC is a little less, maybe, maybe not). The stock options seem to be the main real improvement in the APC.

The lowers are completely a wash. EXCEPT if you can get one with the lower type you want and the other does not have it. A lower swap is expensive. The APC wins on stock options, but you don't care. The APC9 pistol comes with at end cap threaded for a a buffer tube so that's really a wash as well in your circumstances. As a very long time B&T customer I would say the net between the two is that the APC is a fully developed product with parts and accessories reliably available both from B&T and a few aftermarket. The SPC like many of B&T specialty products less so. Will that matter, I have no idea but it has for me in the past. IF you don't give a hoot about the AR compatability you should take a look at the GHM9 as a possible cheaper alternative.
Edited to add. I have found all the B&T products to be well thought out and have never been disapointed in what I bought, so in some sense I don't think it actually matters very much for your situation.

Do they sell the APC9 with the AR buffer tube, or do you have to buy that separately? I looked at the GMH9, but it’s not really doing anything for me. Maybe it’s the extended rear of the receiver, but something looks off to me. Also don’t care for the reciprocating charging handle.

You’re right, the SPC9 does use the same interchangeable lowers, I had forgotten that. I’m not sure I can account for the weight difference, my brother’s and mine are in different states so I’ve never shot them side by side, but the SPC feels heavier and chunkier. That was my brother’s first comment as well. It may be a balance thing more than just weight, but I think it is also the weight of the stock. If you look at the SBR listings, the SPC9 is heavier.

On the stock options, and pricing, this is one thing to be very careful with in the APC9. The rear of the receiver is removable, and there are several options for stock attachment. For side folding, there are two different options. The newer, fancier “MBT” stock has three lugs, while the older simple skeleton side folder has only two. You need to make sure the “pistol” you’re buying has the one that matches the stock you desire, otherwise you’re buying a $300 piece with the buffer in it. That $600 price for the MBT stock you’re quoting includes the rear receiver with buffer. If your pistol already has the right rear attachment, the MBT is only $300. But, if you want the simpler skeleton stock, and you already have the right rear receiver piece with the buffer, that can be had for less than $140.

To see the difference, look at the rear most piece here (newer, MBT 3 lug)

And here (original 2 lug).

The collapsible stock uses a third rear receiver piece with buffer.

It sounds like you’ve made your mind up on the SPC9. It is a good gun, but I do recommend a second look at the APC. At the cost of these guns, $150 is noise. As noted above, get on B&Ts mailing list, they have BLEMs, clearance and also send out site wide 10 and 15% off coupons that add up when buying such a nice gun.

quote:

Do they sell the APC9 with the AR buffer tube, or do you have to buy that separately?

the rear with the buffer tube threading has a plug with a QD which you remove and there is the threading for a buffer. Tube yours to supply like $20.
Edited to add. I don't do pictures on SF but if you shoot me an email I will take pictures of anything you want with respect to the APC. Obviously don't have an SPC.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: hrcjon,

I gave in and canceled the SPC9 and ordered an APC9 pistol. Also ordered a MI pic rail adapter to use for a brace until I can get it SBR’d with a MBT stock.

congratulations, me I think you will be a lot happier. I don't fully get the MI pic rail adapter, what's the rear configuration of the APC you bought?

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
congratulations, me I think you will be a lot happier. I don't fully get the MI pic rail adapter, what's the rear configuration of the APC you bought?

I ordered the standard pistol with the original rear end hinge meant for standard B&T side folding stock.

https://bt-usa.com/products/apc9-pistol/

Midwest Industries makes pic rail adapter for that hinge.

https://midwestindustriesinc.c...t-apc-stock-adaptor/

OK I actually have that adapter. Ran a sig Kate Moss stock on it for awhile (have moved on). But I thought you wanted an AR stock and the std. pistol endplate will allow you to just thread in a buffer tube and run whatever AR stock/brace you want...

quote:

Originally posted by hrcjon:
OK I actually have that adapter. Ran an sig Kate Moss stock on it for awhile (have moved on). But I thought you wanted an AR stock and the std. pistol endplate will allow you to just thread in a buffer tube and run whatever AR stock/brace you want...

I didn’t specifically want an AR stock. It’s the that the SPC9 pistol comes that way and there really isn’t any other choice (other than the telescoping stock tube stub, and I’m not interested in that stock).

Well, I got my APC9 today and ended up getting somewhat hosed by the rear hinge difference as Shackelford mentioned. I ordered BT-36039, which is shown with the old skeleton stock hinges on the B&T web page.

https://bt-usa.com/products/apc9-pistol/

I carefully checked the site I ordered from, which had the same model number, the same UPC, and the same picture showing the old hinge. My order confirmation also showed the same model number and UPC.

The one I got was one with the new MBT style hinge, with no “filler block” in the hinge, so no hinge pin. The B&T bar code tag included with the gun shows the same model number (BT-36039), and the order paperwork included with the gun shows the same UPC, although on the included order paperwork, it says item KTBT36039. This suggests that B&T quietly made a change in the included hinge on the pistol without changing the model number, picture, or UPC. Having the later hinge would be a good thing for installing the MBT stock, but unfortunately I bought the rear pic rail adapter designed for the old hinge, which is now useless. Also bought the full MBT stock, which includes the rear adapter and hydraulic buffer, when all I now need is just the cheaper stock part for when I SBR it. I had planned to run the strike industries brace left over from my Kuna until I Form 1 it, but now I don’t have any brace or pic rail adapter that will work with the MBT type hinge.

I know, first world problems.

I don't see any way to email you. send me an email to my public email please.

Well, if I’m following ya, since you wanted the MBT stock anyway, the change actually saved you money? I’m assuming you can return the MBT stock with buffer, get your money back, and order the MBT stock sans the buffer and then be ahead? Granted, you won’t be able to use the pic rail adapter, but the MBT isn’t a bad stock, and you don’t need need two stocks.

I like B&T, they make quality stuff, but they do make some of the parts confusing. Also note, when you order your stock, to make sure it comes with the pin. IIRC, my MBT stock came with the wrong pin, but B&T quickly sent me the right part.

I hope you like the gun. Do you have a can for it yet? Also, are you gonna pay the $200 impatience fee, or wait until next Jan to SBR it?

Good thing you didn't grab the SPC 9. They just released the SPC9 SD2. Looks hawt.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Vgex,

quote:

Originally posted by Shackelford:
Well, if I’m following ya, since you wanted the MBT stock anyway, the change actually saved you money? I’m assuming you can return the MBT stock with buffer, get your money back, and order the MBT stock sans the buffer and then be ahead? Granted, you won’t be able to use the pic rail adapter, but the MBT isn’t a bad stock, and you don’t need need two stocks.

I like B&T, they make quality stuff, but they do make some of the parts confusing. Also note, when you order your stock, to make sure it comes with the pin. IIRC, my MBT stock came with the wrong pin, but B&T quickly sent me the right part.

I hope you like the gun. Do you have a can for it yet? Also, are you gonna pay the $200 impatience fee, or wait until next Jan to SBR it?

Actually it cost me money. I paid for a MI pic rail adapter that I can’t use. I paid for the full MBT stock with the adapter and hydraulic buffer, so there’s the price delta between that and the stock alone. I’m not sure that I can return either, but even so, I’d probably have to pay shipping back and a restocking fee, so probably not worth it. And, now I have to buy a pic rail complete rear end because I don’t see a rail adapter that works with the MBT hinge.

I figure that I can probably sell the MBT hinge eventually since some people who have the old hinge may want to upgrade, and get some money back My immediate plan is ordering a Safety Harbor pic rail adapter and swap my hydraulic buffer into it so I can use the SI folding brace.

I’m not waiting until Jan 1 for Form 1 it. It will more likely end up being later because eforms is probably going to be a s**t storm for a while and approval times will likely push out because of the mass influx of submissions, just like when eforms went on line a few years ago. I’ll pay the $200 now for the convenience of a one week approval.

For cans, my primary will be my CAT MOB, but I also have other PCC cans if needed.

But I expect that it will be all good in the end and I’ll enjoy it. Just needed to vent a little.

This isn't the actual forum for it, but its a given that the tax change is going to court and I see many delays in its implementation. Waiting seems like a bad strategy to me. I'm with Dwill104 I'm just paying the 200 now its like expedited handling.

quote:

Safety Harbor pic rail adapter

This looks interesting. When you get it, I'd like some assessment when you have time.