I'd like to get your opinions on the Daniel Defense M4A1 R111. I'm looking for a general-purpose rifle and am hoping to spend no more than $3,000 for just the rifle, not including any sights. This will be my first AR, I grew up shooting bolt action rifles and an Uzi.
I'd like to thank all of you in advance for any suggestions you may offer.

Daniel Defense M4A1 R111 at almost $$$2400?

While DD is excellent stuff, you're paying a premium for the name.

BCM is their equal, afaic, but you don't burn a hole in your pocket.

I have to agree with 12131, that's alot of $$ for what is basically a Perm Pinned 14.5, GOV profile mid length gas system.

DD's quality is excellent and we have a number of very pleased DD owners here on the forumn. You can rest assured the every component of a DD meets and/or exceeds MILSPEC.

Are you planning on only buying 1 AR? If so I can undertand buyind a DD. Buy once, Cry once.

I'd recommend that your first AR be a 16" mid length. That will give you more flexibility for modifications (No SBR consideration). A BCM that would fit that bill would run you around $1500 on Brownells (not currently in stock) You can also look at Centurion, Gissele super duty, etc. for similar prices. That will leave you more funds for optics, mags,ammo,sling, etc. You can also look at the DD M4 V7 in black, it meets my recommendation and drops the price out of the stratosphere.

The RIS III is a conundrum for me. The weight savings is negligible when compared to the RIS II (17.7 oz RIS II 12.25" vs 16.61 oz RIS III 12.5"). So, you really only gain the sleekness of MLOK over the cheese grater picatinny. Between the 2, I'd opt for the picatinny, unless I was shedding a ton of weight a la Geissele URG-I.

It’s not exactly true that BCM is an equal to the RIS 3. The RIS 3 is fully ambidextrous. The barrels are top notch, if not some of the best in the business.

I wouldn’t buy one though, as I have no need for ambi. I would probably go with the standard M4A1 with the quad rail and save the money. But, dimensionally the rail on the RIS 3 is about perfect. The size is about right for feel and heat dissipation.

I like BCM. I like Daniel. I like the Geissele Super Duty’s. I would pick what you want. I would pick a Daniel over the others if I could only have one rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
It’s not exactly true that BCM is an equal to the RIS 3. The RIS 3 is fully ambidextrous. The barrels are top notch, if not some of the best in the business.

I wouldn’t buy one though, as I have no need for ambi. I would probably go with the standard M4A1 with the quad rail and save the money. But, dimensionally the rail on the RIS 3 is about perfect. The size is about right for feel and heat dissipation.

I like BCM. I like Daniel. I like the Geissele Super Duty’s. I would pick what you want. I would pick a Daniel over the others if I could only have one rifle.

I have multiple and still really only shoot ONE of my .223 AR's. So I'm all for getting top of the line. However, I will agree with Q that a BCM will do everything that DD will do for 1/2 the money. Your later AR's can be franken builds or one-offs and what not. But the main one you'll shoot SHOULD be quality and reputable. But I've never gone that expensive on an AR. The quality gap just isn't worth that money in MY opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
However, I will agree with Q that a BCM will do everything that DD will do for 1/2 the money.

Again, that’s not entirely true. Street value of an apples to apples 16 inch mid length MLOK DD M4v7 versus a 16 inch BCM Recce type rifle is only a difference of about $300-400. The M4v7 has a street value of around $1850 and the BCM runs in the $1500 neighborhood. If you look at guns like my BCM EAG carbine, you can buy a DD cheaper. It’s all about context.

A Springfield Saint is half the money. The Smith and Wesson MP15 is half the money. BCM rifles aren’t when you compare evenly. Arguably, the Saint will do anything the DD will for half the money. You won’t know much of a difference until you hit 16-18k down range.

To my knowledge, BCM doesn’t sell an ambi gun. So, even with the added expense, it is impossible for BCM to do everything DD will.

I want to thank all of you for sharing your rich experience with me. I'm planning on only buying one AR rifle. I'm going to check out the BCM line of rifles before making a decision.

I have to agree with jljones. The DD barrell is cold hammer forged, BCM ells cold hammer forged barreled rifles and uppers, but they charge more for it. DD has multiple DoD contracts (Rails, Barrels), BCM dosen't. I've been a BCM guy for a long time, I haven't seen them offer a lower with an ambi bolt catch either. They do sell you the aftermarket parts to go Ambi (except the bolt catch). So it's not an Apples to Apples comparison between the BCM model and the DD model. Having done mods to my BCMs, I can tell you the price for quality parts adds up quickly.

I'd also point out that the finish on the DDs that I have handled have always been very nice. My BCM's finish is much more utilitarian.

However, for someone new to ARs do those features, truly equate to value?

To the OP, If you shoot them, ARs tend to multiply. You might start with a 14" , go shoot a match and wind up investing in a second AR (or upper) tailored for that match. If you buy just the upper, they tend to grow lowers.

quote:

However, for someone new to ARs do those features, truely equate to value?

Good question.

DD does make some nice guns but I don't think I could justify that kind of money for a plinker. What I mean is, unless you are going off to war or if you do some serious competition shooting, I don't see the benefit in the long run with the amount of ammo the normal shooter shoots in his life to put down that kind of money. Is it a nice gun? Absolutely but I have others that will do the same thing and are good quality guns. They may not have all the bells and whistles but for a new shooter with an ar-15, I agree with some others that you can get a nice gun for less money without all of the extras, which you will want to do over time when you feel the need for them. I am not saying if that is what you want to get, don't get it, as I have spent a good chunk on guns because I like them and really wanted them.

After considering all your advice, I'm leaning towards a BCM. Thank you for all your suggestions.
Glen

quote:

Originally posted by Only Sig and Glock:
I'm planning on only buying one AR rifle.

We have all said that...
Me? About 3AR's ago...

12131 & JL Jones offer a ton of great information, and do the rest of us.

Hey, I have no problem spending YOUR money. You want a $3000 AR? Hell, we'll get you a $3000 AR.

But do you NEED a $3000 AR?

There are plenty of good to great AR makers out there in the $1200-$2400 ish range. Which leaves you plenty of money to spend on ammo / magazines / a red dot / lvpo / sling / light ( depending on what you're going to use it for )

Colt, Bravo Company, LMT, LWRC, POF USA (not too far from Gilbert Az!) Also give Haley Strategic a call, I think he's still building great AR's. Geissele, DS Arms, ArmaLite... all great AR Manufacturers, with different price points. As far as a Daniel Defense? Great guns! I've beat the hell out of a few of them, light, reliable, accurate, and hold up to some serious abuse. Do you NEED an ambidextrous AR platform? If not, the DDM4 V7 looks to be about the same gun, minus the AMBI controls and minus a few hundred dollars as well.

Here's a question for you, which will give a good starting point:
What are you going to use the AR for?
General purpose? Home Defense? Are you looking for more of a precision orientated AR? Looking for something short? Are you wanting to quiet things down with a suppressor?

quote:

Originally posted by CPD SIG:

quote:

Originally posted by Only Sig and Glock:
I'm planning on only buying one AR rifle.

We have all said that...
Me? About 3AR's ago...

Exactly lol, now I’m at, “at least one AR in each caliber”

You guys are almost certainly correct when you say it's highly likely that I'll develop an addiction to AR's and end up with more than one. When I say general purpose rifle, I mean one for home defense, as well as possible civil unrest (I lived in Los Angeles during the 1992 riots), in addition to target shooting. I really do appreciate all your suggestions and will give them all a lot of thought.

Based on your username, I'm afraid we cannot allow you to purchase a Daniel Defense or a BCM... They're neither Sig nor Glock.

Oh let him have one, they are Glocky enough.

Honestly, I went with a used version of this:

https://www.lwrci.com/IC-DI-M-LOK-556_p_250.html

For less money you're getting better quality. You're still getting an ambi lower, you're still getting a cold hammer forged barrel, but you're also getting a nickel/boron coated bolt carrier group for easier cleaning along with being "keyless" so you'll never have to worry about a gas key unscrewing, and you get a better than mil-spec trigger that isn't so light that you're scared of getting an ND.

While Daniel Defense makes a quality AR that's better than mil-spec, you can find better for a little less.

quote:

Originally posted by Only Sig and Glock:
You guys are almost certainly correct when you say it's highly likely that I'll develop an addiction to AR's and end up with more than one. When I say general purpose rifle, I mean one for home defense, as well as possible civil unrest (I lived in Los Angeles during the 1992 riots), in addition to target shooting. I really do appreciate all your suggestions and will give them all a lot of thought.

Take a look at Colt, FN, Smith & Wesson AR's, DS Arms...

https://www.dsarms.com/pdf/DealerPrice2017-RIFLES.pdf

The AR from LWRC that DanH posted is a great AR for a pretty good price!

After that, stock up on ammo, magazines (keep an eye on Bravo Co. they have a sale every once and a while, Mags average at $12 a piece for a 10 mag bundle).

Look at a good weapon mounted light, red dot sight, sling.

https://dahlonegaarmory.com/pr...-5.56mm-blk-14.5-321

I say go ahead and get the one you want. DD & BCM are both excellent. DD can be found at decent prices if you look around. M4a1 for $1850.