quote:

Originally posted by lyman:
I...am also a nose on the charging handle shooter,

tried a couple sled type mounts, or rather one piece and could not get the scope far enough forward
so I doubled up 2 Warne mounts as far forward as they would go, and it allows the scope far enough out to work for me

It's interesting that you are able to make that work for you. I generally have the scope's rear-most lens right right over the end of the charging handle -- meaning my nose is back a bit from the charging handle. Even then, my one-piece mounts that do not have a forward offset for the scope are positioned at the very last slot on the upper receiver's rail.

FWIW, the Warne one-piece mount I ordered has both the forward offset and a 20 MOA cant. You may not want the cant on your mounts, but a forward offset should make nose-to-charging-handle mounting a little easier.

My Warne XSKEL won't be immediately mounted. I currently have mounts for my 16" and 14" ARs -- some with older scopes and 30mm tubes. The new XSKEL will work with 34mm tubes. When I eventually upgrade optics down the road, the Warne mount will be all ready to go.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
30mm Warne XSKEL is 6.7 ounces, which is lighter than most of the QD stuff- ADM, etc. The weight adds up, yes it does. I got over my obsession with QD mounts and now my ARs are a bit lighter.

Warne allowed me to choose any of their XSKEL models. I thought about the QD model briefly. Then I realized QD is just a feature I really won't use, adds 1.5 ounces to the weight, and adds some metal bits that stick out -- and may eventually catch on something.

Furthermore, Warne threw in a torque wrench that is designed just for XSKEL's mounting bolts. Pretty easy decision to ix-nay the QD version.

I use mostly ADM but I like Bobro the best.
I also have Larue too but I like the ADM better.
ADM has so many sizes and configurations to fit everything and are priced very well.
Bobro fit and finish is the the best.
Not crazy about Larues mechanism otherwise they are OK.
YMMV

This is a timely thread. Santa is on the way with a Trijicon Accupower 1-8 and I had just started looking for a mount. I know nothing about scope mounts as all other optics are regular red dots. I was looking at Larue and saw Bobro recommended in this thread. Can someone explain what the moa cant is for a newbie? 0,20,30 moa?

quote:

Originally posted by 06wrb:
This is a timely thread. Santa is on the way with a Trijicon Accupower 1-8 and I had just started looking for a mount. I know nothing about scope mounts as all other optics are regular red dots. I was looking at Larue and saw Bobro recommended in this thread. Can someone explain what the moa cant is for a newbie? 0,20,30 moa?

MOA cant adds an elevation offset to the mount base, basically it makes the scope point just slightly downward toward the front. This has the effect of raising the point of aim of the barrel and causing your bullet to strike higher in the target area.

It allows you to engage targets at longer distances without having to use up all of the elevation adjustment range in your scope. For a .223 or .308, you need to use something on the order of 45 (or more) minutes of up elevation from a 100 yard zero, to engage a 1000 yard target. Some scopes don't have that much up elevation available, and with many of those that do, when you use that much elevation you lose some windage adjustment range. Using a +20MOA mount lets you zero your scope at the longer distance while still keeping the elevation adjustment somewhat more toward the middle of its range.

Realistically, you don't need or want it unless you're planning on shooting targets beyond 600 - 800 yards. That's assuming you're putting it on something like a .223 or .308, 6.5 Creedmoor or similar. If you're using it on a .45-70 though, you'll need all the elevation range you can get. But if your targets will all be under about 600 yards, don't bother with a +20 or +30 MOA mount.

“Don’t need” a positive elevation base is probably true of most people. There was a time when such a thing was unknown and most shooters got along fine without them.

“Don’t want,” though, is another matter. I’ve asked this question before and not gotten a useful answer thus far. Unless there is something strange about the rifle itself that already has a significant slope that requires dialing the scope down to achieve a zero, I don’t know why a plus elevation base would hurt. If I’m missing something, though, I’d be happy to learn what it is.

Modern scopes typically have a larger elevation adjustment range than many older ones, so your point is completely valid. Yes, using a +20 mount on a typical installation intended for short to medium distances, won't normally cause any problems. But with SOME scopes, after you set up your "normal" 100 or 200 yard zero, if you then want to dial it down to engage a target at say 50 yards, you MIGHT not have enough down elevation adjustment to do it.

I have a +20 base on my .308Win match rifle, and don't have any problem dialing it down to 100 yards or even less, with a 20 year old scope. I used to shoot 1000 yards with that rifle; now I use a 6.5CM instead, with a 0MOA base and the same old scope.

quote:

Originally posted by 06wrb:
Santa is on the way with a Trijicon Accupower 1-8 and I had just started looking for a mount.
I was looking at Larue and saw Bobro recommended in this thread. Can someone explain what the moa cant is for a newbie? 0,20,30 moa?

Per Trijicon's specs, your scope has 100 MOA total elevation adjustment -- or about 30 mils, if you have mil adjustments. But I'll discuss elevation in MOA for now.

This means your scope can dial up 50 MOA from center and dial down 50 MOA from center. I don't recall the last time I dialed down below my 100-yard zero setting, if ever. Assuming that your AR's scope mounting rail is perfectly parallel to your barrel's bore, you likely will dial up 2-3 MOA to obtain a zero at 100 yards. You will continue to dial up elevation on the scope for longer distances. A ballpark estimate could be:
2-ish MOA for 200 yards
5 MOA for 300 yards
8-9 MOA for 400 yards
12-13 MOA for 500 yards
Most people won't shoot an AR-15 beyond 500 yards. Those who do will likely use a different scope than an Accupower 1-8x.

Thus, you likely won't consume more than 15-ish MOA of your 50 MOA up elevation to shoot out to 500 yards. Meaning, you don't need any cant in your scope's base. But it won't hurt if you do have a 10 MOA or 20 MOA cant -- say, if you find a better price on a canted base than a flat base mount.

A canted mount also helps to keep the lens mechanism in the center of the glass. There's a more technical way of stating this, but it escapes me now. Scopes offer clearer vision through their centers, as opposed to when the elevator is dialed near the top or bottom. Or left or right. But you won't be that far from center of the glass -- if you only shoot targets out to 500-ish yards.

Bottom line -- go with what makes you feel good, and with what works in your budget. Flat, 10 MOA, or 20 MOA -- all will work.

Guys thanks for the info. That clears it up. It is going on a DDM4 and most likely won't see more than a 200 yards. Good to know that 10 or 20 MOA is ok if the deal is good.