Since my B&T APC 9 and my new Sphinx SDP Subcompact have been absolute perfection I'm debating the next purchase. I traded my FN Scar16 for the B&T APC 9 and have no regrets but it does have me thinking hard about the APC556/223. The USW has hit the market and I like the Sphinx base design. I'd just like to hear some feedback and put my hands on one in person first. Any pictures or feedback would be appreciated.

I have a TP9, KH9, APC9 & APC45. Be sure to get a Gen II APC556 if you get one....fluted barrel and 1/2-28 thread. Great guns all around.

I have just ingested the B&T kool-aid myself with regards to my APC9. It's been flawless. As you know, the B&T APC9 is the B&T 'gateway drug', getting you hooked only to offer you more addictive and unique designer product later on.

Member Andyb has some of B&T's offerings. You can find his reviews Here. The whole thread has many members posting pics/reviews/pricing/etc, so check it out.

H&K-Guy

If only we could get a 10.5 barrel on the apc556, I'd have one.

Andy's thread there is what hooked me into the APC 9. In for a penny in for a pound. To make matters worse my favorite dealer in the area is a B&T authorized dealer. I've been trying to resist the KH9 in hopes the GHM9 would hit soon. Hope B&T stays around for a long time to come. Hasn't seen any of the APC55/223 in person yet. I did see a AA12 in semi last weekend at a local gun show. I had not seen any of those either.

quote:

Originally posted by 10X-Shooter:
Andy's thread there is what hooked me into the APC 9. In for a penny in for a pound. To make matters worse my favorite dealer in the area is a B&T authorized dealer. I've been trying to resist the KH9 in hopes the GHM9 would hit soon. Hope B&T stays around for a long time to come. Hasn't seen any of the APC55/223 in person yet. I did see a AA12 in semi last weekend at a local gun show. I had not seen any of those either.

10X,

Seems you and I fell victim to the same thread. I, too, was made a B&T acolyte from andyb's images. I, too, purchased an APC9. And, now, I, too, am enamored with Karl's Hobby (KH9). Whichever of us gets one first should give a review of it.

H&K-Guy

I've had issues with cycling with my KH9. Its still a pistol though and it needs to be held firmly to cycle properly. Lots of FTE's on it. I'm going to rig up a brace using an Atlantic Firearms M4 adapter for the TP9 to see if it when shouldered, its more reliable.

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
I've had issues with cycling with my KH9. Its still a pistol though and it needs to be held firmly to cycle properly. Lots of FTE's on it. I'm going to rig up a brace using an Atlantic Firearms M4 adapter for the TP9 to see if it when shouldered, its more reliable.

Pics or it didn't happen.

Could you post pics of your KH9, along with pics of the malfs? Being forewarned is being forearmed.

Thanks,

H&K-Guy

The adapter doesn't line up perfectly on the KH9 like on the TP9 it was made for so I'll need to get some dremel and file time on it for an assembled pic.

I do have these uploaded from when we shot "Pistol Carbine Saturday" was the theme.



Some dings on the tiny ejection port from the FTE's

PGT,

First, your collection if awesome! Me likey, me wanty.

Second, that lower pic is just exactly what I was hoping you could show us. Thank you.

Also, as I should have asked before, what ammo are you using? Does this gun favor hotter loads to cycle more reliable? And, does the KH9 have the hydrolic buffer system found on the APC9? I'm assuming it does not.

H&K-Guy

Thanks...but only the two on the left were mine that day. Would love to have the POF postie w/ Liberty Centurion can but they belong to my SOT.

It definitely prefers hotter loads. We were shooting 147gr American Eagle and it was problematic on my AR9 as well. Swapping to 147gr Lawman, some "house" loads my SOT runs on his AmmoBot and 115/124gr factory stuff...it does ok.

We also were trying to narrow down whether it was an ammo issue, a mag issue or limp-wristing it. One friend couldn't get it to cycle, another (a sponsored shooter on TeamSIG) thought it was a POS and told me to get an APC9 (which I have but didn't bring). LOL.

Alas...too many variables as she was passed around to half a dozen shooters. I did narrow the issue down to one old Steyr SPP mag for sure, the AE 147gr and lack of a firm offhand on the rail.

She'll end up as an SPR so I'm not too concerned. As for internal details...not sure as I haven't taken it apart but suspect you're correct. This is a reimagination of a SITES Spectre M4 in its internal design.

Had some time on the APC45 today with the B&T can out at my SOT's farm. The B&T can has a notable FRP but is quiet after that and ran like a champ on both brass and Wolf steel.



Also had some time on the APC223 and my two transferables, an M2 Carbine and M50 Reising. Had some issues with the mag that came with the Reising so I'll need to source some new ones in addition to a new spring for it. The M2 was flawless....ate Tula steel, S&B and PPU brass using 30rd mags from KeepShooting.com. Cheap mags and reliable...if you've got an M1/M2, don't mess with anything else.

Nice, I've had three M1
Carbines and wish I'd kept them. What did you think of the APC556?

So...recoil-wise, amazing! The issue is that with the Dead Air muzzle brake on it (for a Key-Mo mount), its got tooth-rattling concussion. Keep in mind, I have a SIG/SAN SG553 with 9in barrel and three-prong flash hider; as a comparison, the APC223 shoots smoother but the recoil impulse on the 553 is MUCH more tolerable (even indoors). I chalk that up to the brake though.

I heard that the recoil impulse is super low before so nice to hear continued confirmation. Does it have the same type of rear buffer as the APC45/9? If you change the comp and get different results when you shoot it again let us know if you can. Thanks!

The APC556/223 and APC300 have the hydraulic buffer. The recoil impulse is very very mild (to me) with the factory flash hider. The hydraulic buffer really smooths the recoil impulse. I subjectively find the APC556/223 to be smoother than my SCAR16, SIG 552, and SIG 553. The concussion is there even with a flash hider, though not horrific - this is to be expected with a shorty.

PGT you're braver than I am; no WAY would I put a brake on a 8.5" barrel.

Yeah...it's not staying on there. Incredibly annoying to shoot as you can clearly tell in that video

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
Yeah...it's not staying on there. Incredibly annoying to shoot as you can clearly tell in that video

I hate brakes on 16" rifles. I cannot imagine using one on anything shorter unless it was used with a can attached 100% of the time.

Yeah, this will have a full time Saker on it. I love my Wilson Combat with VG6 Epsilon on it but its not pleasant for anybody else.

I've been holding out for the soon to be released GHM9 but I have also been waffling between it and a CZ Scorpion. The extra $500 difference between the two and the cost of magazines has prevented me from making a decision in favor of the GHM9.

To me the GHM9 looks like what a classic sub gun should be but I have done the math and to set either up with a red dot, brace, flashlight, and five total thirty round magazines there is a $750 price difference in final cost that I just can't swallow simply for a ascetic reasons.