If this topic has been raised before, Mods please delete; I couldn't find it via Search. While technically a pistol, I felt it fitting for MRR as it uses an AR-15 lower and the SBR potential is definitely there (in addition to its current folding brace, which looks well designed.)

Some of you are probably aware that this .45 caliber semiauto subgun won the Golden Trigger award this past summer for best new firearm design. It's been some time since a firearm piqued my interest as much as this one and it's now shipping. After watching several YT videos on it, I must say it looks awesome:
https://www.lwrci.com/p-5563-s...pistol-sb-brace.aspx

The MSRP is $2,990. Like the MCX, caliber conversions are planned for.

I saw the prototype several years ago.

It was basically a metal UMP, but thankfully, not traditional blowback.

LWRC makes nice guns so I have no doubt it will behave itself (unlike the UMP), but $3000 for a subgun is a bit stiff.

LDD - Agreed on the price, hopefully they can come down some retail.

Here's a couple recent videos:

https://youtu.be/sBdYyJKGHMQ

https://youtu.be/IGr5YK7ePFo

been following the development for years... then finally saw it drop and was like, not really for us mere mortals. Definitely for government contracts !

For the sake of discussion only not considering cost:
This....or APC45?

Ive shot one and liked it quite a bit but I'm not sure that it would be more than an expensive toy for me.

If 45 PCCs are your thing its a very well put together and I shot it after it already had hundreds of rounds through it if not more. Not a hiccup, felt very smooth. I'd put it on par with B&T easily.

Damn that looks nice, if you have the coin.

my LGS got one in and the shop manager bought it. He took videos of shooting it suppressed and showed me....it's a really quiet design. My APC45 with expensive B&T can is NOT quiet whatsoever. The can isn't and being blowback, the design doesn't help.

PGT, Thanks for the report. A good sign when the LGS manager snags the first one in the door and glad to hear the LWRC design lends itself well to a can.

Are there any agencies that have adopted a 45 Auto subgun?

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:
Are there any agencies that have adopted a 45 Auto subgun?

According to CMC Gov’t Supply, they only sell the HK UMP45 to Gov’t agencies. Not sure if that means anything. LWRC is planning on releasing versions of their SMG in other calibers however, which I assume might compete for agency adoption.

I picked one up yesterday. It isn’t basically a metal HK UMP. Other than the fact that it uses UMP mags, and the fact that they’ve chosen a UMP stock interface for the pistol brace, there is almost else nothing UMP related. The UMP is a fixed barrel, direct blowback, polymer framed gun. The SMG-45 is metal framed and uses a recoil operated system where the barrel and bolt recoil together for a short distance before the barrel unlocks and stops while the bolt continues the rest of the cycle.

Haven’t had a chance to shoot it yet, but my initial impressions are that it is a very high quality build in materials, fit, and finish. Of course, the MSRP is $3K, so it had better be (whether a $3K .45 PPC is worth it, is another question). It handles well and the weight isn’t too bad. They went with an AR standard grip and trigger package, so there is aftermarket out there for those who want to change. Unfortunately, the rail system is the LWRC proprietary system, not M-LOK, so you’ll be paying LWRC more for attachments. The upper is monolithic, so you can’t change out the forend. The barrel is threaded standard .45 threading .578x28, but since it’s a moving barrel, you need to use a Nielsen device, and can’t use 3-lug or direct thread like most other PCCs. A set of MBUS Pro sights are included, but AR height sights are way too high due to the low stock. For a cheek weld, you need low sights/optics like on a CZ Scorpion. I think the offset MBUS would have been a better choice. A common complaint is that the front takedown pin is very, very tight and you need a mallet to get it in or out. Hopefully it loosens up over time. The safety and BHO/release are ambi, and the non-reciprocating charging handle can be installed on either side. Comes with two US made UMP mags. Looking forward to seeing how it shoots after I get the piston I need for my Obsidian 45.

The lower says “multi” and given that the UMP also comes in both .40 and 9mm, those calibers are likely. However, I doubt the price will be much different and $3K for a 9mm PCC is even harder to justify. If I had to guess, LWRC might offer only complete uppers for those wanting to change calibers since they do not recommend removing the barrels yourself. But, if the whole gun is $3K, I can’t see a complete upper costing less than half of that. Maybe LWRC is becoming the American HK?

While I can see the intention, I’m not sure many government agencies are going to be jumping on this, at least not without some changes. The proprietary rail system and need to hammer out the takedown pin are probably going to hurt on that front, and it’s likely to still be expensive even with government pricing.

Hopefully get my piston in a week and go try it out at the range. Then it’s fingerprints, eForm, $200; all of the fun stuff when a new gun comes in.

Obligatory photo. Optic is a Holosun HS503GU.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dwill104,

It's a neat gun, but they're at a price point that is consistent with UMP clones. A lot of the people that want a .45 SMG type gun are going to want the UMP at that price. Especially since it's using the already very expensive UMP mags. It would be nice to see an affordable .45 SMG mag pattern other than Glock with a KRISS extension.

That's a SWEET firearm.

But you bring up the very valid point that at $3K, it's WAAAAY up there, especially for a 45 PCC.

Does the barrel reciprocate?

quote:

Other than the fact that it uses UMP mags

This pretty much evens out the price tag with say, a B&T, with it's $189 magazines. I wanted a B&T 45, but saw how much magazines cost, and said "fuck it". Then happen to find a dealer in Florida with the gun, and another 5 magazines for only $225 bucks. So I snagged it. Then after waiting forever for a tax stamp, found out it doesn't like hollow points.....

quote:

Originally posted by JoshNC:
Does the barrel reciprocate?

Yes, it does. It works conceptually similar to a tilting barrel pistol. On firing, the bolt and barrel are locked together and recoil together for a short distance until the barrel unlocks and stops, while the bolt keeps moving rearward to cycle normally.

A reciprocating barrel SMG where a sound suppressor must be attached to the reciprocating barrel is a non starter in my opinion. Does it require a Nielsen device in the can to function? What effect does that have in change of POA? It certainly negates using a QD can. It’s a neat design otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by JoshNC:
A reciprocating barrel SMG where a sound suppressor must be attached to the reciprocating barrel is a non starter in my opinion. Does it require a Nielsen device in the can to function? What effect does that have in change of POA? It certainly negates using a QD can. It’s a neat design otherwise.

Yes, I said in my post above that it requires a can with a Nielsen device. Note that the barrel only moves in the horizontal direction. It does not actually tilt down like a typical semi auto pistol.

quote:

Originally posted by Dwill104:

quote:

Originally posted by JoshNC:
A reciprocating barrel SMG where a sound suppressor must be attached to the reciprocating barrel is a non starter in my opinion. Does it require a Nielsen device in the can to function? What effect does that have in change of POA? It certainly negates using a QD can. It’s a neat design otherwise.

Yes, I said in my post above that it requires a can with a Nielsen device. Note that the barrel only moves in the horizontal direction. It does not actually tilt down like a typical semi auto pistol.

Interesting but that feature is a hard pass for me. Neat design and good to see innovation. Just not my cup o tea.